69. That's So Gay (You Really Shouldn't Say That)

Snarky Opener (0:00)

As a wise woman once said in 2008: you really shouldn't say that.

Episode Introduction (0:24)

Hello, my LGBTQuties, and welcome back to another episode of A Jaded Gay.

I'm Rob Loveless and, today, I am a non-jaded gay because I recently got a five-star review for the podcast, which, you know, the message I read on it, I just I loved it.

It really touched me. Thought it was really sweet. I'm gonna read it real quick actually:

"This pod and the topics Rob cover was the drop of water that kicked off a journey for me that has had a profound ripple effect. Getting insight to gay micro-traumas, people pleasing, perfectionism, vulnerability, community, codependency, and internalized homophobia helped me to put words to what I was experiencing. In addition, taking action by seeking out a queer, affirming life coach. Rob delivers a powerful message that is insightful and entertaining. I enjoy the tie-in to tarot. Most of all will be forever grateful."

So, for whoever submitted that, thank you very much. Super sweet. I'm really glad you find the podcast so helpful. That's why I'm doing it. You know, I hope people relate to these things.

I feel like, you know, I've said this before, but I feel like what I talk about on here, what I felt as a gay man, I'm certainly not the only one, but I feel like it was hard for me to find people who felt similar ways about different topics, things with relationships, emotional well-being.

So, I'm really glad that there's other people out there who are resonating with this, who are really enjoying the show, and I hope it continues to help people. So, thank you again for that.

Love to hear the feedback. And hearing things like that definitely gives me the motivation to keep, you know, putting out new episodes.

Sometimes, with everything going on, it can feel a little hectic and chaotic, uh, trying to put out a new episode every week, but gives me the motivation to trudge along.

That’s So Gay (1:52)

And we're trudging right along today with episode 69, nice. But one thing that's not nice is saying that's so gay as an insult.

Now, as an adult, I don't really hear that phrase anymore, but apparently, it's still persisting in schools. We'll get into the data later.

But you know, for a lot of people who still use this phrase, cough, cough, straight people, they don't think it's a big deal, even though it kind of is because for myself and for a lot of gay men growing up, even before we knew what it meant to be gay, we knew that gay was synonymous with bad because of expressions like that.

So, we're going to get into it. But first, tarot time.

Tarot (2:30)

All right. So, you might have a little hint of deja vu here, but today's card is, once again, the Seven of Wands, which we just pulled for last week's episode.

But as refresher Wands, it's tied to the element of fire, which is representative of passion, creativity, and sexuality. It's also masculine energy. So, it's very action-oriented.

And the number seven, it's this magical, transformative number that's all about being strategic and planning and taking inspired action.

So, this card is a reminder that we need to meet our obstacles head-on, but in an assertive and strategic way.

We can't just react emotionally or defensively, or else we're not going to be able to clearly communicate our stance.

And you know, the more visible we are, the more authentic we are to ourselves, the more others may challenge our success or viewpoint, and they might try to put us down.

So, this card's a reminder that we need to have the courage to take inspired action and stand up for ourselves, again in a strategic and assertive way.

So, by now, I'm sure you're all experts on the Seven of Wands. There's your refresher again. We talked about it last week.

So, there will be some lessons from that as well, and obviously, we'll tie it into the episode at the end. But two weeks of Seven of Wands, there it is. Let's get into the topic.

The History of Gay (3:33)

So right off the bat, you know, I love me a history lesson. So, let's start off with a brief history of the word gay. And I know last year we did an episode on the F word and talked about the etymology of that.

So, you might recognize some of the overlap between the history of how these words came to be.

Anyway, this timeline comes from The Gayly, which is a news publication that covers LGBT community topics and events as well as things throughout the state of Oklahoma and the surrounding region.

So, the word gay dates back to the 12th century and actually comes from the French word gai, which is spelled G-A-I, which meant full of joy or mirth.

And it didn't take on a sexual meaning until the 1600s when its meaning of being carefree evolved to imply that someone was prone to promiscuity. In fact, brothels were commonly referred to as gai houses.

And then in the 1890s the term gey cat spelled G-E-Y, which is a Scottish variant of the word gay, was used to describe a vagrant who offered sexual services to women, or a young traveler who was new to the road and in the company of an older man.

And the latter use suggests that the younger man was in a sexually submissive role. So, this use of it could be how the word gay was used to imply homosexual relationship.

Regardless in 1951 gay appeared in the Oxford English Dictionary for the first time as slang for homosexual.

But it is believed that this usage was used underground for approximately 30 years prior to appearing in the Oxford English Dictionary.

And then we get to the 1990s where people began using the word gay for things that they considered stupid or undesirable.

And Urban Dictionary expands upon this definition, saying it's a phrase used to describe something that's lame, dull, or boring. In essence, something that's unsubstantial.

Think Before You Speak Campaign (5:11)

And for years, most people wrote this phrase off as just being a playground put down. And I'm not sure when people began having these conversations about not using that phrase.

The earliest article I found about it was on NPR in 2009 which we'll get to momentarily.

But the conversations had to have started at least a few years prior, because in 2008 the Gay, Lesbian, and Straight Education Network, GLSEN, launched the Think Before You Speak campaign, which is a television, radio, and magazine advertising campaign that was developed to raise awareness of the common use of derogatory vocabulary among youth toward LGBTQ+ people.

In fact, they spent $2 million to launch the campaign in an effort to raise awareness about the prevalence and consequences of anti-LGBTQ bias and behavior in America's schools.

And part of the drive for this was because of the prevalence of suicide among LGBTQ+ youth.

So, in these PSAs, they had different celebrities participate and explain why people shouldn't say that's so gay.

I know Wanda Sykes was in one, but there was one in 2008 that was especially iconic, which featured the living legend Hilary Duff:

"Do you like this top?"

"So gay."

"Really?"

"Yeah, it's totally gay."

"You know, you really shouldn't say that."

"Say what?"

"Well, say that something's gay when you mean it's bad. It's insulting. What if, every time something was bad, everybody said that's so girl wearing a skirt as a top."

"Oh, you are."

"Those are cute jeans, though. When you say that's so gay, do you realize what you say? Knock it off."

Now, I don't remember seeing this one on TV, but I only knew about this PSA at the time because of Dane Cook in one of his stand-up specials circa 2009:

"First of all, have you seen the commercial where we're not supposed to say gay anymore? We can't throw the word gay around casually? It's a commercial. Hillary Duff is in the commercial.

There's two girls, they're shopping. One girl says to the other, Megan, do you like this shirt? And then the other girls like, I think it looks kind of gay. Then Hilary Duff walks around the corner.

She's like, you shouldn't say that. Oh, thank you, Hilary Duff. Sometimes when I find myself in a life conundrum, I go, what the fuck would Hillary Duff tell me to do right now?"

All right, hey, now, hey now. To that, I say, watch your mouth because Hilary Duff gives sage advice. Okay? I mean, I make sure I don't dress in yellow when I want to dress in gold.

That's a deep reference. If you know, you know.

Anyway, while you don't remember seeing the PSA in 2008, I do remember hearing my classmates regularly say, that's so gay. And it always made me uncomfortable because I wasn't out.

I didn't even really understand that I was gay, but there were still rumors in school. People thought I was gay.

And so, when I heard people say that's so gay, I was afraid the conversation would go from whatever they were talking about to me who they thought was gay.

Negative Impacts of Homophobic Language (7:57)

Anyway, in 2009 Neal Conan, host of Talk of the Nation, actually explored the topic of teenagers using that so gay. During the segment, he talked with Professor Geoffrey Nunberg from the University of California Berkeley School of Information and had parents and high school students call in to weigh in on the subject.

He also interviewed Eliza Byard, the executive director for GLSEN at the time. And the general sentiment is that using this phrase is wrong because it is aligning being gay, regarding sexuality, with being gay meaning something is bad.

And while the intentions of saying that so gay may not be meant to insult, it can contribute to homophobia. Here's a quote from Eliza Byard from the NPR interview:

“The concern is that this phrase is so ubiquitous in schools. We find consistently, for the last nearly 10 years, more than 90 percent of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender students report that they hear this phrase at school a lot, all the time, and, if you think of the whole context of homophobic language in schools, in a way that's so gay is kind of the broken window of a much bigger problem in the sense that if you don't deal with it, it sets a tone that allows other, more serious things to happen.

And as I'm sure you're aware, incidents of more serious verbal harassment, physical harassment, and even physical assault directed at LGBT students are not uncommon in schools. The rates are unacceptably high. And, when we began thinking about the Think Before You Speak campaign, we thought we're doing a lot to work with schools on policies and training to deal with the very serious incidents like the fact that 83 percent of gay students in school experience very targeted verbal harassment.

We thought let's see what we can do about this kind of low-level, tolerated background noise of the use of that's so gay, which really sets the stage for other language.”

And again, the Think Before You Speak campaign and that NPR Interview are from 2008 and 2009 respectively. And conversations around this have increased in recent years.

That’s So Gay is a Microaggression (9:45)

In fact, a 2018 Psychology Today article titled "That's So Gay" Is Just So Wrong stated that the phrase that's so gay is actually a microaggression.

And I know we've talked about this before, but as a refresher, a microaggression is a largely unconscious indignity perpetrated through language or behavior that degrades socially marginalized groups.

And while many minority groups try to brush off microaggressions, the truth is, it still hurts, and words and actions can carry weight.

In the article, Dr. Joe Kort, a licensed psychologist, claims that it doesn't matter if kids become acclimated to harmful language because saying that's so gay is always pejorative, harmful, and homophobic.

And that phrase is especially harmful for kids who are struggling with their sexuality. Here's an excerpt:

“Think about this: For thousands of years, religions have called homosexuality an abomination. People still get murdered if someone thinks they are gay, and not just in other countries. Imagine being that kid who suspects he is LGBT is feeling shame and in danger for his friendships or his life because he can’t turn to anyone to talk about it … not even God.”

Kort goes on to say that we must begin to understand the power of language and become aware of the words we use since there are so many unexamined assumptions embedded in language.

Kort gives the example that when most people hear the term LGBTQ+, they equate it to having adult sex. However, for an LGBTQ+ child, the term doesn't have anything to do with that.

Additionally, LGBTQ+ children tend to be invisible in society.

Kort shares the example that one of his clients remembered riding in the car as a kid with his father, and the father pointing out a building they were passing and said, that’s where all the faggots go to dance.

Now, his father loved him, but he had no idea his son was struggling with his sexuality. So, think of that kind of shame and pain those words can cause.

Kort shares another story of a client whose parents caught him looking at gay porn and was horrified and said, you're not gay, are you?

So those kinds of microaggressions, along with hearing phrases like that's so gay thrown around carelessly, can have extremely negative impacts on LGBTQ+ people.

Here's another quote from the article:

“I hear stories like these in my office every day. LGBT children and teenagers are little spies looking around to see if people are safe or dangerous or if the situation or environment, they are in is safe or dangerous. Hearing kids saying, “That’s so gay” every day makes the people and everything else around them questionable: Are things safe or dangerous?”

Rates of Anti-Gay Language (12:03)

And this problem is persistent in schools today. In October 2022, GLSEN published their National School Climate Survey.

In it, they found that nearly all LGBTQ+ students, 97%, heard gay used in a negative way at school. So, for example, saying that's so gay as an insult.

And 93.7% reported that they felt distressed because of this language. And 89.9% of LGBTQ+ students heard other types of homophobic remarks, such as dyke or faggot, with 44.2% reporting that they heard this type of language frequently or often.

And here's a few other key findings that are pretty horrifying:

• 8% of LGBTQ+ students in the survey reported feeling unsafe in school because of at least one of their actual or perceived personal characteristics
• 2% of LGBTQ+ students missed at least one entire day of school in the past month because they felt unsafe or uncomfortable
  • And 11.3% missed four or more days in the past month
• Nearly a fifth of LGBTQ+ students reported having ever changed schools due to feeling unsafe or uncomfortable at school
• 58% of students reported hearing homophobic remarks from their teachers or other school staff
  • And 72% of students reported hearing negative remarks about gender expression from teachers or other school staff
• Only one-tenth of LGBTQ+ students reported that school staff intervened most of the time or always when overhearing homophobic remarks at school
  • And less than one-tenth of LGBTQ+ students reported that school staff intervened most of the time or always when overhearing negative remarks about gender expression
• 7% of LGBTQ+ students were verbally harassed based on their sexual orientation
• 4% of LGBTQ+ students were physically harassed at school based on their sexual orientation
• And lastly, 53.7% of LGBTQ+ students were sexually harassed

Speak Up (13:53)

And obviously, there are many issues that need to be addressed based off of those findings, but keeping it tied to the topic, what should be done about the phrase that's so gay?

Well, the biggest thing is, speak up about it. Staying quiet and ignoring it doesn't help the problem.

In fact, there's a few articles and resources online about what to say when you hear someone say that's so gay.

And they're mostly focused on educators correcting their students on using that phrase, but I think there might be some helpful context there that you can use with anyone.

And this comes from the Human Rights Campaign Foundation's Welcoming Schools program:

So first off, like we said, don't ignore it.

Harassment doesn't go away on its own, and ignoring mean name-calling and hurtful teasing only allows it to continue and possibly get worse.

So, if others don't see action, they get the message that there's nothing wrong with it.

Not speaking up teaches not only the person targeted but anyone else within hearing range that they will not be protected from harassment.

And ultimately, almost any response is better than ignoring the situation. You may not know exactly what to say, but you must stop the harassment.

Next, stop it and keep it simple with a quick response.

And here's a few possible responses:

• Do you know what gay actually means?
• It's not okay to use gay disrespectfully to mean something is bad.
• You may not have meant to be hurtful, but when you use the word gay to mean something is bad or stupid, it is hurtful.
• Using the word homo to tease someone is harassment and is unacceptable.
• Even if you didn't mean to offend people who are gay, it's offensive to call something you don't like gay.
• If you don't like something, then just say you don't like it.

And also consider educating them.

If you have the time and opportunity to educate on the spot, do it. And if you don't, make time later.

Be clear that using the word gay in a negative way is disrespectful. Be clear that using the phrase that's gay is hurtful to others who may have family members or friends who are LGBTQ+.

And it might be tough, but when you're in these circumstances, try not to go into assuming someone has ill intentions.

Even beyond using the phrase that's so gay, I think a lot of people use language that isn't okay without realizing why it's hurtful.

And beyond just commentary like that, we should all be intentional with our words and mindful of what we're saying.

You know, we're living in a time when it's super easy to just hurl insults at people or approach them with snappy language, and this just causes disagreements to escalate, and it's completely unnecessary.

Episode Closing (16:05)

And connecting it back to the tarot, when these obstacles appear, when there's disagreements on the horizon, it's easy to just kind of back away, or to react emotionally and defensively without actually taking the time to properly educate someone.

So, in a situation like this, again, while it's easy to assume ill intent with somebody who's using the phrase that's so gay, they may just be uneducated.

So instead of hurling an insult back or snapping at them, try to use one of those responses to stop them from saying it, and educate them on why it's not okay to say that. Again, easier said than done.

And something like this, it's, you know, extremely personal. I'm sure we've all had experiences where we've heard that's so gay, or have had gay thrown at us as an insult.

And for a lot of us who are closeted, that's a really, you know, painful, insecure thing for us. So, it's, again, easier said than done, but at the end of the day, you know, see something, say something.

Educate others, and try to do it in a strategic and assertive way.

So, there you have it. That's so gay. Like Hilary Duff told us, you really shouldn't say that.

So be mindful of what you say and educate others if they're using an appropriate language.

Connect with A Jaded Gay (17:02)

As always, thank you all for listening. I hope you enjoyed this episode and found it helpful. A special shout out to that listener who left the five-star review. That was very sweet, and I really appreciate it.

If you have any questions or feedback about the episode, you can reach out to me rob@ajadedgay.com.

Please feel free to connect with a podcast on Instagram, TikTok, SoundCloud, and YouTube @ajadedgaypod. You can follow me personally, Rob Loveless, on Instagram @rob_loveless.

Also, consider checking out our Patreon and supporting the show for as little as $1 a month. That's @ajadedgaypod.

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And remember, every day is all we have, so you gotta make your own happiness.

Mmm-bye.

Outtake (18:08)

So, the word gay dates back to the 12th century and actually comes from the French word gai, which is spelled G-A-I, which meant full of joy or mirth.

Full of joy or mirth? That's definitely not me. I'm the other type of gay. The sad gay.