50. Self-Love Tough Love (with Tillie Lee)

Snarky Opener (0:00)

Tillie Lee

And I don't know that this is, like, a healthy thing, but I just remember growing up, and I never wanted to be one of those people that's like, woe is me.

Or like, whiny, or like, attention seeking. So, I tried to go the opposite of that. And I think in some ways, maybe that wasn't the best for me because, like, I wouldn't ask for help necessarily.

Or I was just, like, trying to be a bad bitch. I was like, nine.

Episode Introduction (0:42)

Rob Loveless

Hello, my LGBTQuties, and welcome back to another episode of A Jaded Gay I'm Rob Loveless, and today I am a non-jaded gay because I am about to have a wine night tonight after this episode.

So very excited about that. Don't worry, I won't be drinking alone.

I actually have a friend here today, a special guest on our show, which we'll be getting to in a bit.

Self-Love Tough Love (1:02)

Rob Loveless

So to kind of line it up, let's talk about confidence. So, I feel like a lot of gay men put a great deal of effort into being quote-unquote attractive.

You know, we might work out obsessively or buy the fanciest-looking clothes, try to have the best haircut, or have a routine skincare regime to have flawless skin. I'm talking about me.

But a lot of people claim that confidence is actually the most attractive quality in a person, and having confidence in ourselves can be difficult. You know, we've talked about it throughout this podcast.

Growing up feeling different or being rejected can cause us to doubt ourselves in many ways.

And as a result, we may have developed a false sense of confidence, meaning we have to create an illusion of a life, one that seems exciting and luxurious.

We've talked about this in topics on perfectionism, self-deprecating humor, body obsession, internalized homophobia, the list goes on and on.

But if we want to live more fulfilling lives, then we need to develop a genuine sense of self-confidence. So, with that being said, I'm excited to have my friend Tillie Lee join us today.

She's actually the one who took the photo used in the cover art for the show. Fun fact. But she is seriously unbothered and one of the most confident people I know.

She's confident in herself, confident in her decisions, and confident in the universe that things are happening as they're supposed to. Basically, she's the complete opposite of me.

So, I want to talk with her about how she developed a sense of confidence, how she connects mindfulness and empowerment, and how we can all live more confident lives.

But first, you know the drill, let's pull our tarot.

Tarot (2:21)

Rob Loveless

So, the card for this episode is the Eight of Pentacles in reverse. Now, as you remember, Pentacles is tied to the Minor Arcana. So, it's things that we should be adjusting in our day-to-day lives.

Pentacles is also tied to the element of earth. It's feminine energy. So, it's asking us to be more meditative and reflective.

And really, this card's tied a lot to, you know, putting in the hard work and reaping the fruits and rewards of our labor.

And in numerology, eight is tied to movement and transition, and also infinity. Like infinite power, because if you think of the eight, it's connected as a constant loop. There's no break in it.

So, we're really getting ready to kind of channel our power. But when we draw this card in reverse, it's indicating that we might be feeling burnt out, that we're overworked, or that we're being undervalued.

And with overworking and feeling burnt out, that might be an indication that we're focused on trying to create perfection, but it's actually our downfall because when we try too hard, we're just chipping away at ourselves.

And we start losing sight of the bigger picture and what we're working on in the first place.

And typically, when we're trying to be perfect, that means we're trying to control every situation we're in, and by trying to control the situations, it might be getting in the way for bigger and better things to happen and unfold naturally because we're trying to manipulate the circumstance.

So, this card's asking us to reflect on ways that we can maybe take some of that load off, where you take time to relax and kind of rejuvenate, re-energize, and find ways to let ourselves kind of just exist and go with the emotions of it.

You know, trust the timing, trust the universe, instead of trying to control every situation.

Guest Introduction (3:39)

Rob Loveless

So, from tarot to Tillie. Our next guest is a photographer, yoga instructor, and businesswoman.

She's all about the Zen and indifferent to mediocre men. Please welcome Tillie Lee.

Tillie Lee

Thank you. Lovely to be here.

Rob Loveless

So, to kick off, you know, can you just tell us a little bit about you, what you do, what you identify as, all that fun stuff?

Tillie Lee

Of course, yeah, I think you covered it. But so, I'm a wedding and portrait photographer. I'm also a yoga teacher.

I live in Pittsburgh, and I'm excited to come on here and hang out with my friend Rob in his closet and talk about things.

Rob Loveless

The best place to be.

Tillie Lee

Best place to be.

Rob Loveless

And also, I like to ask all my guests, are you today an honorary jaded or non-jaded gay?

Tillie Lee

I'm feeling pretty non-jaded.

Rob Loveless

Good. Why's that?

Tillie Lee

I'm just happy to come hang out with my friend. It was heard there'd be wine after.

Rob Loveless

Oh, there it is. Always goes back to the wine. Well, we'll, we'll go through this podcast really quick so we could get to the good stuff. But let's kick it off.

Developing Your Self-Confidence (4:33)

Rob Loveless

You know, I love starting off episodes with vocabulary lessons.

So according to Oxford Languages, self-confidence is a feeling of trust in one's abilities, qualities, and judgment. But what does that mean to you personally?

Tillie Lee

Yeah, I mean, I think it's an ever-evolving thing, right? Like it'll change as we get older, I think, and as we, like, go through different experiences.

But I would agree that it's having trust in yourself and your decisions and, you know, whatever feels true to you, and kind of going with that.

Because I just feel like, if you can't trust your own choices and your own intuition, then, like, what are you doing, you know?

And I know that takes practice, and I've practiced it a lot. But that's kind of my definition. Just going with your gut, right?

Rob Loveless

Yeah, and I think that could be hard to kind of, you know, trust yourself, whether it's, you know, is something really not sitting right with me, or am I just being anxious about something, you know?

For myself, a few years back, I interviewed for a job, and I knew the job offer was pretty much coming my way, but something felt off.

But I thought I was just hesitant about, you know, leaving the other job that I loved so much, and that I kind of pushed that aside and said, You're just anxious.

And then I went with it and ended up being really a bad decision, and I kind of went into it and realized, like, oh, my intuition was right. I didn't listen to that.

So, kind of talking about trusting yourself, you know, I think you're somebody that pretty always has, like, a pretty clear direction of what you want and trusting your instincts.

So, has that always been the case with you, and have you always had a healthy sense of self-confidence?

Or has that been something you've kind of worked on over the years?

Tillie Lee

Hmm, I think it fluctuates. But growing up, I do think I was, like, pretty confident.

And I attribute... I mean, I definitely had times where, like, things didn't go my way, and that, like, fucking sucked.

Can I say, fuck?

Rob Loveless

Yeah, you can.

Tillie Lee

Great, cool. You can clip it out, if not. But I mean, mostly I think I attribute it to like, the way I was brought up.

And, you know, my parents were good parents, and they loved us, and they told me I was great, and I believed them.

Rob Loveless

Even when she wasn't.

Tillie Lee

Even when I wasn't. No, I think there was a healthy, healthy amount of like, sarcasm, even in my childhood, you know?

And like, I don't know, like, the world doesn't revolve around you, but doesn't mean you shouldn't, like, think that you're a good person and, like, try your best, right?

Rob Loveless

Yeah, I like that a lot. And I think too, like, kind of, you know, this is something that I kind of talked about in the gay best friend episode.

But I think too, you know, the gay best friend, they were always kind of, like, just the sidekick to people.

But I think the lesson from that in general is, you know, gay, straight, whatever, you're going to be the main character of your own life.

But that doesn't mean you're going to be the main character of everybody else's lives, you know?

So, it's kind of like you need to, going back to the world doesn't revolve around you, but you still should be invested in yourself, and, you know, confident in yourself because at the end of the day, you are, you are your own world, so to speak.

Tillie Lee

Yeah. Yeah, and that's why, like, I try, and I'm, like, getting better about, like, setting boundaries because if I have the choice between disappointing you and myself, I'm probably gonna pick you because, like, I don't have to deal with, you know, like I'm not responsible for the way that you feel about things.

I would never intentionally, like, hurt somebody else, but at the end of the day, like, I have to be responsible for, like, my own emotional well-being before I can even, like, try to be there for somebody else.

Rob Loveless

Sure. And I think that's difficult too because I think growing up, you know, a lot of us, you know, were told be kind, be a good person, and I think I don't want to speak for you, but for myself, sometimes I internalize in the sense of, like, I don't want to hurt anybody else's feelings.

And sometimes there's going to be or I don't want to disappoint people. And sometimes there are going to be situations where it's not going to be super easy, you know?

If you want to do something, you want to do, it's going to disappoint or hurt somebody else.

I think there's a respectful way to go about that, but it's important not to, you know, their feelings are valid, but you can't necessarily bring those feelings upon yourself and determine your worth off of how they're feeling.

Tillie Lee

Yeah. And I think you had an episode about codependency.

Rob Loveless

That was episode two.

Tillie Lee

Oh, look at you. Uh, but yeah, it's like, I can't feel your feelings for you.

Rob Loveless

Yeah.

Tillie Lee

You know?

Rob Loveless

So can you, kind of, you said you were always pretty confident, even in childhood.

And, you know, because your parents raised you in that sense of, you know, you're like, you know, trust yourself, all those things.

Can you kind of walk us through growing up, like, anything that might have stood out to you in terms of, like, your self-confidence journey?

Like big moments that you know either shook your self-confidence or that kind of affirmed your self-confidence?

Tillie Lee

Yeah, and I don't know that this is, like, a healthy thing, but I just remember growing up, and I never wanted to be one of those people that's like, woe is me.

Or like, whiny or like, attention seeking, so I tried to go the opposite of that.

And I think in some ways, maybe that wasn't the best for me because, like, I wouldn't ask for help, necessarily, or I was just, like, trying to be a bad bitch. I was like, nine.

But I always, like, did not want to be that person, and I didn't want to be like that whiny person everybody has to reassure.

So, I think, you know, as I got older, it became less about that and more about just choosing what I wanted to do and, like, going with it.

And sometimes that worked out great, and sometimes it didn't. But, you know, for better or for worse, I think a lot of times I was, like, faking it until I made it.

And now I just don't, like, really give a shit. Sometimes I give a shit. We'll be honest, you know. But I think I am better about caring or deciding, like, whose opinions I want.

And if you're giving me life advice, unless you are where I want to be, like, I don't care. You know what I mean?

Rob Loveless

I think too, you know, it seems like there's a lot of people out there who are, you know, so quick to give advice to other people on how they should live their lives, or you know, how they should handle a situation when they don't even have control over what's best for their own life.

You know, like they don't even know what's best for them, but they know what's best for other people.

So, I think, you know, how did you get to that point where you can kind of filter out the noise and just really focus on, going back to, you know, your intuition, your own thoughts, what feels right for you versus what other people are maybe pushing upon you?

Tillie Lee

I think I was always pretty rebellious, and I just, like, hated the idea that somebody else would tell me what to do. And my dad was like that too.

So, I think it is kind of ingrained in my soul. Um, but also therapy. Therapy is the best.

Rob Loveless

I say it every episode. Can't recommend it enough.

Tillie Lee

Seriously.

Rob Loveless

That's like the solution. I always try to end every episode with, like, some action item that we can do to make things better. And usually, it's, like, therapy is the top one.

Tillie Lee

Yeah, go to therapy and also be a therapist, because there's not enough therapists.

Rob Loveless

And they make good money.

Tillie Lee

Yeah.

Rob Loveless

They make more than podcasting. I'm not jaded about that.

So that being said, you know, it seems like you have always had that healthy sense of self-confidence, but has there ever been a situation, maybe in childhood, or maybe more recently in adulthood, that's really kind of shaken your self-confidence?

And you know, how'd you handle it and recover from it?

Tillie Lee

Yeah. I mean, like, every other day. Not really, but yeah, I mean, like, there's little things and then there's big things, right?

Like, I think about at work, I feel pretty confident. Like, I think I deliver a good, like, quote product. And I think I can show up for people like, whatever that is, if it's like a private yoga lesson or photography.

But, you know, occasionally, like when I'm taking pictures and things, like, I like, it's a go, go, go scenario.

And a lot of times, like when I'm working, I'll show people the back of the camera just to get them to, like, see it, and usually nine times out of ten they're happy. They're excited.

This session's even better because they know, like, oh, I look good. Occasionally, though I'll show it to somebody, and they don't like it. And in my brain, I'm like, huh, shit. Like, I'm terrible at this.

But and I think when I was younger, like, you know, that may have put me in a spiral, but now I can kind of catch myself and be like, oh no, this is probably about them because it's like, oh, they don't like the way their arm looked or whatever.

But now it's like, I can get curious, can figure out what it is that I'm missing or that needs to be changed, and then things are even better than what they were doing before because, like, now it's more personalized, and now I've improved upon whatever I was doing.

Being Vulnerable and Confident (12:23)

Rob Loveless

Yeah. And when it comes to that, like, when you get those clients who maybe don't like what they see, and, you know, obviously, like you said, that's more probably an insecurity they have about something they might see in it that they don't like.

But what do you do to help them, like, you know, either kind of offset that insecurity they might have in that moment, or just in general, first, you'd have to make them feel comfortable if they've never really been?

Because when you're being photographed, you're like, the center of attention, and it can it's a different kind of environment.

Tillie Lee

Yeah, it's like, vulnerable.

Rob Loveless

Yeah.

Tillie Lee

Yeah. Um, so, I mean, a lot of it is prepped before the shoot. Like I send, like, a long list of things to do, and, like, what to wear, and, you know, taking care of yourself beforehand.

So, I do try to set people up for success with that. But then also it's like a lot of praise, right? Like, encourage, don't discourage as my mom would say.

And just noticing, like, if they feel uncomfortable, I just switch it. If something doesn't turn out, I'm giving away all my secrets. I would I would never say it. I would just switch to something else, you know?

Like, you really try to keep things positive. And then if you need a break, like, just take a break.

Go get a drink. You know, we can take five minutes for you to, like, chill out. And, like, occasionally, I'll walk somebody through a breathing exercise if it's, like, really bad or uncomfortable.

Rob Loveless

Have you had any situations like that where maybe there's been a client that's been very anxious or very, you know, uncertain of the situation you've really had to kind of walk them through and help kind of support them in their self-confidence?

Tillie Lee

Yeah, I would say most people are nervous. You know, it's never too bad. And usually, like, the first five minutes, and I say, like, hey, you're gonna feel awkward and you're gonna feel like you look dumb.

It is awkward, and I feel dumb when I get my picture taken, but I'm not going to send you any pictures that you don't look good in.

So, if it feels awkward, you're probably doing a good job.

Rob Loveless

And also, like, we're always our worst critic, too.

So, like, we're going to notice every little poor, every little detail in a photograph, whereas most people see it and go, oh my gosh, you look amazing, you know?

Tillie Lee

Yeah, and I'm such a hypocrite because, you know, I'm a total photo brat. Like, my poor boyfriend.

Rob Loveless

Sorry, Fran. Should I bleep his name out?

Tillie Lee

Oh, no. He wants a shout-out.

Rob Loveless

Okay, his name is Fran. We're gonna spell out the last name. His number is.

But going back to the photography piece, you know, I know you've done a lot of, like, wedding photography, engagement photography. I know you've done a bit of boud.

How do you pronounce it? Boud?

Tillie Lee

Shit, now I'm not gonna be able to say it.

Rob Loveless

Boudoir?

Tillie Lee

Boudoir.

Rob Loveless

I know you've done a bit of boudoir work as a photographer. Seriously, beautiful photos. If you haven't, go check her out on Instagram. @tilleephotos, right?

Okay, @tilleephotos, it'll be in the episode description.

But you've also been on both sides of the camera. You know, posing for boudoir shoots and photographing those shoots as well.

So, in that situation, you know, you're having people literally stripping away their layers and really being vulnerable, both physically and emotionally.

And I think a common area of insecurity for people is their body. So, in these types of situations, how do you feel confident and empowered in your body?

And then on the flip side, how do you help your clients feel empowered in those situations?

Tillie Lee

Yeah, it's definitely like what I said before. It's like prep work, you know, like I'm exfoliating, I'm self-tanning, doing my hair, I'm picking out outfits that make me feel good, and that helps.

But I think, like, all of us would be lying if we said we didn't have body issues, right? And that's something that, like, I still struggle with occasionally. Like, but it's just like, working with what you have.

And I was talking to my therapist about this recently. I'm like, why is it that I still notice when, like, I think someone's better, like, more attractive or smaller than me?

He's like, well, you are conditioned to do that so you can give yourself a break. And I do, and I think everybody should because there's not one certain way that a body could look.

But, yeah, I mean, I like, trust my photographer. I think that's the best thing you can do is, like, hire somebody who works, like, speaks to you and, you know, is professional, and knows, like, how to hold that space because it is really vulnerable.

Yeah, and if my photographer tells me I'm hot, like, I'm full of myself enough that I will believe them. So, I just need someone to hype me up. You know, everybody needs a hype man.

Rob Loveless

Everybody needs a hype man. And you know, I think a lot of what you just spoke about can also translate to a relationship, whether it's a friendship with somebody or a romantic relationship, in the sense of, you know, trusting your photographer.

That's, you know, you need to trust the person you're with in in that relationship.

And you know, again, we might notice every little detail and every little flaw in ourselves, but if we're dating somebody, odds are, you know, even if they see those flaws, it's not a turn-off for them or anything that they're going to criticize.

Because, you know, if somebody's saying, oh, you're right, you do look like shit here. Like, why would you be spending your time with that person?

Tillie Lee

Yeah, I mean, if you're not, like, if your person you're dating is not into you, like, that's their problem.

Rob Loveless

Yeah. So, like.

Tillie Lee

What are you doing?

Rob Loveless

Yeah.

So, for those moments when you might feel insecure, like, maybe I don't look great, maybe I don't, you know this or don't, you know this or that, like your partner, they they're not going to...Yeah, your partner's going to be supportive.

Like, they're not going to be there grilling you because if they are, they're not a partner. That's not somebody you should be spending time with.

And again, I think it just goes back to that we're more of our own, you know, our own worst critic.

Tillie Lee

Right. No one else. Like, honestly, everybody else is so in their own head. Nobody gives a shit what you look like for the most part.

And if they do, then, like, that's probably their own insecurities they're projecting.

Rob Loveless

Yeah. And I mean, like, this might be a silly example, but, like, there's days where, like, you know, my hair is super short, but, like, I'll gel it a certain way or whatever, and I think, oh, it looks stupid. Blah, blah.

But it's like, when you go through your day-to-day, do you ever notice people and, like, see them and go, oh, that hair looks awful? Like, how, that really never happens that situation.

And so, like, do you think, especially with how short my hair is, is somebody really going to notice and go out of their way to be like, Rob, your hair looks terrible.

Like, it's just one of those things that we just, we're so worked up on every little thing. Like, does this shirt look okay, does this hair look okay?

That we're not like, I don't think most of us are going through life looking for ways to criticize people and say, oh, that shirt looks awful, that hair looks awful.

At least, I don't notice that on the day-to-day when I'm out and about seeing other people. So, like, we're just more worried about that.

But people, and this isn't meant to be a bad thing, but, like, people aren't paying that much attention to us, you know?

Tillie Lee

100%. And if they are, like, how sad.

Practicing Mindfulness for Self-Confidence (18:20)

Rob Loveless

I know. So also, on top of being a photographer and businesswoman and all that fun stuff, you've also been practicing yoga for a number of years now.

And I think you became a certified yoga instructor back in 2017. And I know yoga is very focused on breathing, being in the moment, finding your center, all that important stuff.

So, can you talk through the relationship between the sense of mindfulness and how it contributes to self-confidence?

Tillie Lee

Yeah. I mean, I think it kind of ties to what we were just talking about. It's if you're like, present in the moment, like you're not worried about dumb shit, like your hair, you know?

And I think that's why people get kind of addicted to yoga, especially like the studio that I teach at, Amazing Yoga in Shadyside.

Like it's so hot and like you feel like you feel you're gonna die sometimes, like you're not worried about anything else. And I think that's why people come is because you can, like, get out of your own head.

And there's a lot of people, there's, like, a whole embodiment movement. You know, it's like, going more with, like, what feels good in your body than, like, anxieties floating around in your brain.

I mean, it's just, if you're living in the present moment, enjoying yourself and, like, not on your phone, like, to me, like, you're confident because you're not worried about, like, dumb little stuff that doesn't matter.

Rob Loveless

What are some easy ways to stay mindful and, like, be in the moment?

Tillie Lee

Well, if it was easy, we'd all be doing it all the time. I mean.

Rob Loveless

Maybe, maybe easy is the wrong word. Maybe, you know, what are some good ways to start off, like beginner stuff to be mindful?

Tillie Lee

Yeah, sure. Um, I mean, I, I like meditation apps. I like Insight Timer. People use Calm. That's cool. If you do that, you know, like, they have a two-minute one you could start with, or 30 seconds.

And I lay down when I meditate because I'm lazy, so I don't feel like you have to sit up with a straight spine. But also, it's just like being mindful.

It's, like, you go for a walk without your phone, or you could literally, like, set a timer on your phone and just, what do I see? What do I hear? What do I smell? Like, that's a thing.

Sometimes when I'm washing dishes, I'm just like, oh, this is, oh, the water is warm and it smells good. And you know what I mean? It's just like being more aware of your surroundings.

Rob Loveless

I know I'm guilty of this too. Like, I'm always listening to music for everything I'm doing, or a podcast or whatever.

So, I'll be, you know, doing the dishes, cleaning the house, but there's always music, or I'm on the phone with somebody, or even when I'm going for a walk.

So, you know, I might, you know, maybe I do, like, smell the candle that I lit, or, you know, I do notice the sun shining, but not in the same way because it's like, kind of half paying attention to that while I'm, like, doing three other things.

So, I think that's a good point. Just kind of starting small, like just enjoying some silence, and kind of really just focusing on one task instead of multitasking.

Because multitasking is actually kind of a lie because if you're doing that, you're usually, you know, you're usually not focused on something.

So, your kind of just spreading your attention thin across multiple items, not fully committing to any of them.

Tillie Lee

Right. I mean, like, why do you have to distract? And that's a bigger thing, and you should probably go talk to your therapist about it.

Rob Loveless

Oh, I am. We do frequently. Frequently.

Tillie Lee

Yeah, it's really hard. But I mean, even just, like, if you can take one big breath in and one big breath out, and just, like, be present for that breath, I think a lot of times, especially if you're anxious, it's just, like, that little kind of cool down.

Balancing Confidence and Arrogance (21:21)

Rob Loveless

So, and then I think, you know, I wonder too because this has been for me sometimes.

In some circumstances, I've been afraid to, you know, like, if I'm being recognized for something, you know, sometimes I kind of shy away from that a little bit because I don't want... sometimes the attention feels weird, but also like I don't want to, you know, seem like I'm cocky or arrogant, or like, oh yeah, I did this. Blah, blah, blah.

So, but at the same time, I think if you're backpedaling too much on that, you are not, you're not recognizing your own accomplishments.

And I think there's, you know, a very fine line between recognizing yourself and being proud of yourself without being, you know, cocky or arrogant about it and bragging about that.

So how do you kind of maintain that line?

Tillie Lee

Well, now that we're talking about it, I'm like, wow, do I sound arrogant?

Rob Loveless

You do.

Tillie Lee

Um, I mean, I think, like the universe, like, has its way of humbling me.

You know, like, every time I'm like, walking on, like, cloud nine, I'm like, wow, like, I've really got this is, like, when I look down and realize I have like, two different shoes on or something.

But for me, like, the line is kind of like, okay, am I doing this for me or am I doing it for other people?

You know, like, am I, like, talking about this thing, or, like, posting this thing, or whatever it just to, like, show off? Or is it, like, no, this is for me.

Like, I like this outfit, I think I look good, and it feels good, and it's not like I'm seeking validation. You know what I mean?

Rob Loveless

Yeah. And I think too, that might just also come naturally. Like, if you're doing things, it goes back to, you know, obviously being self-confident.

If you're doing things that make you feel good, if you're, you know, wearing clothes that make you feel good, and you're doing it just for yourself, I think that's going to build that confidence within and then other people just naturally take notice of that.

It's not, you know, I'm trying to wear this because I want to look good for somebody hoping to impress them. I think that part will come naturally.

People will be impressed if you're wearing it because it makes you feel good in that. You know, confidence in yourself is radiating, you know, externally.

And you know, I've talked on here in the past about how we can show ourselves self-compassion.

Practicing Self-Compassion (23:10)

Rob Loveless

And taking it a step further, I found this list published by the UK National Health Service about ways we can build self-confidence.

And these include recognizing what we're good at, learning to be assertive, saying no to things we don't want to do, and challenging ourselves to try new things every day.

And I think those are things that we already kind of covered throughout this. But what are some ways you maintain and build your own self-confidence?

Because, like you said, it's like, you know, every day, it could be a challenge sometimes to be confident.

So, it's a, you know, it's an ongoing process of being, you know, confident in yourself.

Tillie Lee

Yeah. I mean, it is right? Um, I like that list. I like saying no to things. Um, but I'm, you know, I'm just actively, like, trying to be kinder to myself.

Because, I mean, like, even, like, you know, occasionally, like, I get in this, like, loop where I'm like, oh, like, your work's not very good, and like, you shouldn't do this thing.

And like, that doesn't get me anywhere. Like, being a dick to myself, like, never let me have, like, any like, long, lasting, sustainable growth, you know?

Like, I never got anywhere by, like, being like, wow, Tillie, you really suck today.

Rob Loveless

I know. And I think it was a self-deprecating humor episode in the fall, but I talked about, you know, in that episode, we were talking about, like, the negative self-talk.

And I think so many of us, like, just slip into that without even thinking. Like, I can think of times where, like, you know, I, and this is something I still catch myself and I try to correct myself.

But, like, you know, if I make a mistake, like, if I, you know, walked upstairs to get something and then I forgot one of the things I'm supposed to bring downstairs or if I knock something over, I'm like, Rob, you're so stupid.

Why didn't you think about it or whatever? And it's like trying to correct myself, to just be like, all right, no, like, you made a mistake.

You don't have to call yourself stupid for that. And it might seem, like, silly and that that's so small, but I think those kinds of things add up.

And, you know, also, I try not to say the word hate as much anymore, in general. Like one for myself, like, oh, I hate this on me. I hate that. Blah, blah, blah.

But in general, because I think hate is a really strong word that's kind of just become ingrained socially where, like, we just use it for things we dislike, without realizing how strong that word actually is.

So, if we were saying we hate ourselves or hate this or hate that, do we really? Are we just maybe, like, unhappy with the situation or unhappy with how we're feeling that day versus actual hate?

So, I think, like you said, trying to be kinder to yourself, it's important to kind of eliminate that negative self-talk and kind of just correct ourselves when we do.

You know, because obviously we're gonna have slip-ups, we just kind of correct ourselves to be like you made a mistake.

You don't have to hate yourself. You don't even call yourself dumb. Like it happens.

Tillie Lee

Yeah, it's just noticing it. And then the more that you notice it, the quicker you'll bounce back. It's impossible to, like, never have a negative thought, like our brains are wired.

And I think it goes back to, like, evolution. Like you had to look for tigers or whatever were gonna eat you, like, a survival instinct. But I don't think it serves us as much anymore.

Episode Closing (25:41)

Rob Loveless

So, what advice would you give to someone who's interested in becoming more mindful as it relates to building their self-confidence?

Tillie Lee

I mean, I think we've covered a lot of it, but just definitely, like, being kinder to yourself. Like it's bleak, but, like, you're the only person that you can count on at the end of the day.

I'm not saying that the only person you can count on, but like, for the majority of your life, like, you know, like people die and things happen, and like you're the only person that you had from day one to, like, the end of time, or for your end of time.

Um, so, like, why would you not, like, want to make that person like your best friend? Um, so, you know, being kind to yourself, like trusting yourself.

And I think that it can be hard to do that and then get in that groove. But, I mean, intuition, man.

Rob Loveless

I like that a lot. That's a really. I mean, it's a little dark, but it's, like, it's true though. You're right. Like, I mean, like we said, you're your own main character.

You're not going to necessarily be the main character in somebody else's story.

So, you know, you should be focusing on your own storyline, your own plot line, and, you know, investing in yourself and just trust that the good things will come to you as a result because you have that confidence in yourself.

Tillie Lee

Yeah. And, I mean, like, not everything that's coming to you is gonna be good. But if you're nice to yourself, like, don't you think you'll have an easier time with dealing with whatever that is?

Rob Loveless

Definitely. And, you know, going back to the tarot, we got the Eight of Pentacles in reverse, and I think, you know, it's talking about us being overworked, feeling burdened because we might be putting in the effort to be, like, you know, perfectionism might be kicking in, and so we're trying to, you know, really kind of force things to work out a certain way, instead of letting it unfold the way it should.

I think we talked about that a lot on this episode, too, that, you know, if you're trying to manipulate a situation in the sense of, you know, oh, I'm dressing a certain way because I want this person to think I look good or I'm trying to do this.

It's kind of that false sense of confidence. It's validation, not confidence.

So I think this card, you know, and as we close on the episode, we really need to reflect on ways that maybe we're doing that, and ways we can improve on being kinder to ourselves, being a little bit more confident in our lives, and really just kind of, you know, trusting the universe has our back and learning to really trust our own intuition as we make decisions on what feels right for us.

Tillie Lee

I read this book by Baron Baptiste, and he talks about with mindfulness and things like that, you get to a point where you know how, like, you'll have a conversation with somebody and it's, like, you're going through a hard time, and they're like, well, you could laugh about this in 10 years?

And his idea is, like, yeah, like, maybe you could laugh about it tomorrow. And that's not gonna work for everything, but in my life, it's worked for a lot.

Connect Tillie (28:04)

Rob Loveless

Awesome. Well, thanks for coming on today, Tillie. Um, is there anything you want to plug before we wrap up here?

Tillie Lee

Sure. Um, so you can find me at tillielee.com. Rob will put it; I almost called you Fran. Rob will put it in the bullet notes.

Um, and then my Instagram is Til, like T-I-L, my last name Lee because people call me Til that like me, photos. You can find me there.

Rob Loveless

I'll include all that in the episode description.

Connect with A Jaded Gay (28:28)

Rob Loveless

As always, remember, please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. You can also reach out to me with any questions or feedback rob@ajadedgay.com.

You can follow the podcast on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and SoundCloud @ajadedgaypod. You can follow me personally, Rob Loveless, on Instagram @rob_loveless.

You can also support the show on Patreon, becoming a monthly donor for as little as $1 a month @ajadedgaypod.

And remember, every day is all we have, so you got to make your own happiness.

Mmm-bye.

Outtake (29:20)

Rob Loveless

And then we're gonna clap on the count of three. Ready? 1-2-3. Oh, okay. That wasn't in sync. We have to do it again. We want to clap at the same time. Ready? 1-2-3. Close enough. I think it should be fine.

Tillie Lee

I mean, if you wanna do it again.

Rob Loveless

Let's, do one more for good measure.

Tillie Lee

Okay.

Rob Loveless

1-2-3. Perfect.

Tillie Lee

Oh, thank God.

Rob Loveless

I need to start this. So to kind of line it up, let's talk about ...what's the topic? Empowerment?

Tillie Lee

Are you serious?

Rob Loveless

Let's talk about...

Tillie Lee

Empowerment? Maybe?