43. Surviving a Breakup (with Sara Sabatino)

Snarky Opener (0:00)

Rob Loveless

Did that bring up any anxious feelings or any sadness? And how did you deal with that?

Sara Sabatino

Yeah, I mean, I tried to get him to want to have sex with me, like, every first couple of times that we hung out.

But, you know, it didn't work. Probably for the best.

Episode Introduction (0:32)

Rob Loveless

Hello, my LGBTQuties, and welcome back to another episode of A Jaded Gay. I'm Rob Loveless, and today I'm a non-jaded gay because I had a really good workout.

Started off my Saturday morning great. Went to a little workout class where it was a mix between, like, floor exercises. There was a lot of rowing, a lot of squats, and then treadmill sprinting.

So, I'm pretty sore but in a good way. You know, gotta work the booty.

Another reason I'm a non-jaded gay is because I'm very excited to have another guest on the show today.

Surviving a Breakup (0:58)

Rob Loveless

You know, a while back, we had the learning to accept kindness episode, and we talked about how people are sometimes afraid to accept kindness because it can kind of stir up an existential crisis.

You know, the experience of being loved, it makes us place more value on ourself, and maybe we even kind of place an emphasis on our identity as being in a relationship.

And then if things don't work out, we worry that losing love might devalue our life and that we might not have an identity as a single person.

So, with that being said, you know, being broken up with can be really scary. And in 2019 I had a bad breakup I went through where it was kind of like that.

You know, I had gone through grad school, I had been really busy where I'd just been focusing on school and work.

And then once I finished grad school, I had all this free time, and I just threw myself into dating.

I didn't focus on anything, you know, for myself in terms of, like, hobbies or connecting with friends or anything like that. So, I dated somebody for, like, three months, and again, just that was my priority.

I was always checking my phone when I was watching TV. I was checking to see if I got a text back. I never really made plans with anybody. I was just waiting on plans for this person.

I didn't have anything for myself. And so, when I did get broken up with, I felt completely lost. I'm like, what do I do now? I have all this time. I'm not hearing from somebody I heard from all the time.

And I kind of really had to reevaluate of who I was and start taking time for my hobbies again and making time for myself, because I had to, you know, you have to be good with yourself before you can be in a relationship.

And luckily, you know, I've learned some things along the way, but I think a lot of us can fall into that trap and not knowing what to do following a breakup.

So that being said, I'm very excited for our guest today. I'm gonna have my friend Sara Sabatino join us to talk more about her experiences with surviving her own breakup after a very long-term relationship.

But before we get into that funness, you know the drill. It's time for tarot.

Tarot (2:36)

Rob Loveless

So, I feel like I drew this card for an episode not too long ago. I don't know. I've been recording a lot lately, in the past few weeks. So maybe it's further back than I thought and it's just all blending together.

But we pulled the Three of Swords in reverse, which, I don't know if you remember this, but the Three of Swords, it's basically known as the heartbreak card of the tarot.

You see a heart with, you know, literally, three swords going right through it. So that's perfect. And Swords is tied to air. It's very masculine energy, which is, you know, more action-oriented.

Swords is all about communication and principles. You can think of, you know, the pen is mightier than the sword, the sword of truth.

And in numerology, the number three, it's tied to collaboration and expansion.

And while the Three of Swords typically is the heartbreak card, in reverse it's actually signifying that we're on the road to recovery and that we're easing whatever pain we might be feeling.

So how perfect for surviving a breakup. Basically, when we get this card, you know, the sadness might already be present.

We might be sitting with something, not feeling great about it, but this card is a sign that we're on the way to better times. You know, there's a brighter sun on the horizon.

We're moving forward from whatever that pain is. So, while we might be hurting now, we can't let that consume us, because we are on the right trajectory forward.

And with sadness, it's very easy to just sit with it, let it become all-consuming, and just kind of focus on the past and feel all doom and gloom and mourn the past of what you might have lost.

But we can't let it consume us because we really need to be mindful of, you know, whatever we've lost in the past, it's made way for something new in the future.

And because of that, we have to look to the future for new opportunities.

But if we're not taking action, if we're not being proactive enough, if we're just kind of wallowing in the sorrow, then we're not going to be able to see what further opportunities or goals there are for us on the horizon that we can achieve.

You know, whatever we lost that might pale in comparison to what we can find going forward. So, we can't let ourselves be consumed by this.

And during this time, we need to pay attention to our inner thoughts and our self-talk. We've talked about this in a lot of episodes. We can be our own worst critics.

So, we need to silence that voice inside that's telling us we're not good enough. You know, going back to the self-deprecating humor, going back to being kind to ourselves, we need to take care of ourselves.

We need to really; we can't criticize ourselves. We need to forgive ourselves for any mistakes made, let go of the past, and be kinder so that we know what we deserve in life.

That we deserve kindness, we deserve to be treated well. And we could find that moving on from whatever situation might be holding us back or might be causing the sadness.

Guest Introduction (4:39)

Rob Loveless

So, let's talk about moving on from sadness, especially as it's related to a breakup. Time to bring on our next guest.

She's got a cute face, but don't get too close, because she works with cadavers for a living.

Please welcome my friend, Sara Sabatino.

Sara Sabatino

Hi Rob. Hi everyone.

Rob Loveless

So, do you want to introduce yourself?

Tell us a little bit about you. You know what you identify as, your pronouns, all that fun stuff.

Sara Sabatino

Sure. So, hi everyone. So, my name is Sara.

Rob and I have actually been friends since birth, which he failed to mention. And I go by the pronouns, she/her.

And, yeah, we have been best friends since 1993, I presume?

Rob Loveless

Yes, that's when I was born.

Sara Sabatino

And I was very excited to come on this episode and talk to you guys too, because the breakup Rob is referring to is actually my divorce.

And I would love to talk about that, and I finally found peace with that. So, I'd love to help anybody else who's going through that and let them know it's not so bad.

Rob Loveless

Yes, I'm glad you brought that up, because when I was asking you to identify yourself, I was also going to throw that in, you're also a divorcee.

Sara Sabatino

Si, that is correct. A divorcee.

Rob Loveless

Ouch. Very tragic. But you know what? So was Elizabeth Taylor.

And so kicking things off, I like to ask all my guests this, are you an honorary jaded or non-jaded gay today?

Sara Sabatino

Non-jaded gay because I am here with my best friend, Rob Loveless.

Rob Loveless

You sound so sincere. Thank you. Well, very excited to have you on and especially as it relates to this topic. You know, I feel like, compared to myself, you're somebody who had always been in more serious relationships. Some very long-term.

A Shift in the Relationship (6:06)

Rob Loveless

So, I wanted to, you know, as we're talking about surviving a breakup, as you mentioned, I wanted to specifically talk about 2019.

You know the year. Rough year for both of us, just at different times.

But to start off, can you tell us a little bit more about that relationship?

Sara Sabatino

So, with that relationship, I had met this individual in college and freshman year of college, to be exact. We dated all throughout college.

We didn't take any breaks, and once college ended, we decided to move in together. We switched cities, so we left our little small town and moved to the big city of Philadelphia.

And we seemed to be okay for a while. Things were going great. I mean, everything was fine at the time. And it really didn't start to go south until after we got married.

And then I just kind of noticed we weren't spending as much time together, and that's when things really started to go down.

Rob Loveless

So, and you had been together, you said, since your freshman year of college. So that was about what, eight years total, from start to finish, you had been together?

Sara Sabatino

Yeah, about eight years.

Rob Loveless

And so, you said it was around the time you got married that things, you know, felt a little different. Can you talk about what that shift felt like?

Or was there anything you really kind of noticed, like, when you know, things began to, I guess, spiral and decline downward?

Sara Sabatino

So, you know, with college, you're just kind of going through the motions together. You're trying to get through classes, but you always have something to do.

So back when we were going through college, you know, we were always together. Same thing when we graduated, we were still always together.

We moved into an apartment that was one bedroom, so we were literally on top of each other for two years, which was nice to have. To be able to kind of share the space and be closer.

And then we started moving into bigger houses, so we had more space. And he really liked to be on his computer. I really liked to be outgoing and outside of the house. And I kind of noticed a shift there.

So, we moved into a bigger house. We got a dog together, so we would take the dogs for, the dog for walks. And we were still spending a lot of time together.

So, it wasn't until after we got married that we moved into our final house, and it was a lot larger. So, there were more rooms, more space between the two of us.

And I started to notice we just we never were in the same rooms together. He really liked to be around his computer and upstairs, and I really liked to be outside of the house and just anywhere else.

So that's kind of when I started to notice the shift that maybe this wasn't exactly what I thought. I was starting to feel lonely. He wouldn't come out with my friends and I.

So that's when I started to feel a little, a little sad. A little lonely.

Rob Loveless

And was there, like, did you think in your mind, oh my gosh, there's, like, a major problem here?

Are we just thinking, you know, we've been together for so long, we're just kind of shifting a little bit?

Sara Sabatino

I did start to think that maybe we've been together for so long, maybe with things, we're just starting to shift into a different direction.

And, you know, how, how are we going to fix this? Like, what should we do to kind of bring ourselves back to what we felt was the perfect relationship in the beginning?

Rob Loveless

Yeah. And I think it's interesting too, because, you know, like you said, you had started doing your freshman year of college.

So literally, 18 to 26. And I feel like that's a really big time because we've talked about this before, but with your 20s, I feel like 20 whatever means something different for everyone.

You have people who are getting married, having kids. You are people, you have people you have people who are just going on and getting their doctorate.

So, it's like everyone's around the same age, but there's just such different situations. And I think going through that too, you realize how much you do change. Like even just compared to early 20s versus later 20s.

So, I imagine there was a lot of change and a lot of kind of self-discovery during that time of dating, you know, this guy, and then, you know, getting married to him.

And it really is, you know, like people say you need to kind of make sure you're growing together.

Sara Sabatino

I agree. And it was interesting at the time because none of my friends were really in serious relationships. Um, they were all kind of single, or they were just dating around.

And I was really the only one who was in a long-term relationship. So, we were still young, we still wanted to go out, and we still wanted to go the clubs.

And I was able to do that with them, but I also had wished that I had my person there with me. And he never seemed interested to want to come out with us. So that was another kind of noticeable change.

You know, I'm with all my friends who are kind of living their lives, doing their things, and I have to kind of stay reserved, while also trying to have fun with them, while also not having my person there with us.

Rob Loveless

Do you think he basically was somebody who was very reserved in general and it was just being in college he was, you know, with you and your friends, he was forced to be out and about because it was a college environment, versus, like, you know, once that's over, he's just, you know, at home doing his own thing?

Sara Sabatino

You know, college is really where people find themselves, and regardless of your personality type, you fit in with a group of friends that kind of bring out the best in you.

And he had good friends that brought out the energetic guy out of him, and I was able to see him more. So, in college, it was definitely different.

Rob Loveless

So, and I think we talked about this before.

You kind of felt the narrative of like, dated in college, now we're moving in together, now we're engaged, now we're getting married, now we're buying the house.

It kind of just felt like the natural trajectory. Do you think maybe part of it was wanting things to work and trying to get caught, and getting caught up in that aspect?

Or do you think there was actually changes that happened later on where you realized at the end of the day, once you know weddings over, all stuff, you realize like, wait, maybe this is not the right situation for me to be in?

Sara Sabatino

100%. So again, after I graduated college, I went to grad school. He moved with me to Philadelphia, and I was in the mindset that, okay, we are now moving in together.

We're on the right path. Next, we're gonna get engaged, then we're gonna get married, then we're gonna have the dog, then we're gonna have the kids, then we're gonna have the house.

And everything was really a checkpoint for me that I wanted to mark off. And at the time, I kind of thought that's what life was.

That you follow the checklist of life, make sure everything's marked off, and then you can proceed to the next level.

So, for me, I don't know if it was that I was ignoring the personality, or if I just truly didn't see it, but I really would just wanted to get to the next checkpoint.

And I didn't read too much into our relationship to really start to notice that we weren't a good fit until after we got married.

And then something must have hit where I said, oh, wow, this is the rest of our lives. Am I really supposed to be with this person?

Did I go too fast? Did I make a mistake? And that's kind of where the things started to fall apart, for lack of a better word.

Rob Loveless

Thank God you didn't hit the checkpoint of having kids. That would have been awful for me.

So, you know, you kind of talked about how you noticed the shift and kind of started questioning things around that time.

Was there a specific event or situation that really was a catalyst for realizing, like, this is not going to work? Not even just a, you know, something feels off to me. I feel we're growing apart.

But like a solid thing where, like, oh my god, this is it? Like, this is not, we're not meant to be together.

Sara Sabatino

When we did start to talk about it, I did approach him with my concerns. Starting to say like, well, I actually feeling this way, and I I'm not as happy as I used to be in our relationship.

I still loved him very much, and I know he loved me, and we still wanted to make things work, but I seem to be kind of the only one who was putting in the effort to make it work.

So, I was the one suggesting therapy. I was the one who wanted to, you know, change. I was the one who was like, kind of thinking of ideas and short-term solutions to get us back on the right track.

And when I kind of noticed that he wasn't putting in as much effort, then that's kind of when I started to say, oh, okay. So, we either have to make a choice or we're just gonna have to keep living.

Rob Loveless

And I know, like you were talking about, you were trying to take the steps for the short-term solutions. And ultimately you were the one to end it.

And while you said you had kind of been feeling lonely during that time beforehand, how did you feel when you were kind of coming to the conclusion of, like, this isn't going to work? I need to end this.

Sara Sabatino

It was heartbreaking. You know, like, this was supposed to be my person. This was supposed to be my life.

We just moved into a beautiful house, you know, we just, we merged all of our money. We combined our lives together.

Along with heartbreaking, it was also terrifying, because I knew that ultimately it would mean that I would have to start over completely, and ultimately end up alone, which I hadn't been since—

Rob Loveless

High school.

Sara Sabatino

High school.

Rob Loveless

Middle school actually.

Sara Sabatino

Well, really.

The Breakup (14:31)

Rob Loveless

So, what, what did ending the relationship look like?

Sara Sabatino

I can tell you exactly what happened that next day. So, we ultimately decided to end things the night before.

We slept in separate rooms. I woke up the next morning and said, I'm gonna go to the gym. And after my gym class, all of my adrenaline left my body.

And I ended up calling Rob on the phone and sobbing and telling him exactly what was going on. I went home, I packed a bag, I showed up at my parents' doorstep.

I took a week off of work, and I stayed with my parents, just trying to journal and trying to get my head around what was happening.

My parents were trying to help me feel better in the best way that they could, but nobody really knew what we needed. It took a while, honestly, for my parents to know what I needed.

But, you know, it was very hard, and during that time also we had to make a plan because I had to move out. I had to get a new place.

I couldn't afford to live in the house, so it was really up to me to kind of get things moving and get out to start the process.

Rob Loveless

I remember that day too because you had been talking to me a little bit ahead of time about some problems. I knew things weren't great.

But I remember I was at work and I just get a phone call. And now we call each other multiple times a day, but at the time, we really didn't talk on the phone too much.

So, I'm like, it's 10 am and Sara's calling me. Oh shit. So, I, like, run into the hallway at work, answer my phone, like, hello, Sara?

And you're just like, we're separated. And then you're, like, sobbing as you're driving on the road. And then you're, like, oh my god, I can't see. I have to pull over.

Sara Sabatino

Yeah, I had to do a whole U-turn. People were very mad at me that morning, and I apologize to them.

Rob Loveless

It wasn't funny then. It's funny now. We can laugh about it now.

So, what, you know, walk me through, obviously, you leaving was not the, like, legal, official end of everything. But so, walk through the process of, you know, getting your own apartment.

This was the first time you ever lived by yourself because you'd gone from your parents' house to college dorms to, you know, living with your ex.

So, living alone, you know, finding a new routine, you know, having all that time to yourself, like, what did you feel?

Sara Sabatino

It was terrifying, to be honest, moving out of that house. My parents came up. They tried to help me find an apartment.

All of the apartments we looked at were very small and very sad-looking. We did luck out. In the end, we found one very nice apartment that I was able to move into immediately, and it was really pretty.

Had nice little windows, had a beautiful kitchen, and I just despised everything about it because it wasn't my home.

It wasn't what I was used to. I hated that my life was no longer on the path moving forward.

In my mind, I was kind of taking steps backwards, where all of my friends now at this point were getting into serious relationships.

Rob Loveless

Not me.

Sara Sabatino

And not you. But everybody else was moving forward.

You had just bought a house, so I was still kind of behind you because you were moving into your new, beautiful house.

And in my mind, I was going backwards, and everyone else was passing me. And that was really hard in and of itself.

Rob Loveless

I think it's really interesting too, because, you know, I think there's kind of an unofficial competition between friends sometimes.

Because, like I said, you know, in your 20s, everybody's in so many different places.

Like, some people are getting married, some people are buying houses, some people are, you know, in school, changing careers, whatever.

So, what did you, you know, at that point where you said, you know, you felt like you were moving backwards.

How did you, I think it's really easy to get, you know, stuck in that mindset and then just kind of, you know, either resent people around you or just get really depressed.

So how did you kind of overcome that mindset?

Sara Sabatino

It took a long time. Um, I was probably in that depressed mindset for up to about a year I'd say.

Um, no more than a year, but definitely up to a year where I'd wake up in the morning, hope it was all a dream, look around my tiny apartment, my tiny bedroom, and realize it wasn't.

Get that gut-wrenching pain that you are all familiar with after a breakup, and just have to kind of push myself out of bed and move on with the day.

So that lasted for at least six months where I would wake up feeling that specific way. You know, I lost a lot of weight. I was not in a good mental space.

I really relied on my friends very heavily at the time. And yeah, it took a while for me to get out of that.

Rob Loveless

I remember specifically, too. One situation was somebody we knew back home knew that you were getting divorced or knew that you were no longer living in the house.

I can't remember what, but obviously it was not something you were widely communicating at the time. And I remember telling you, like, so and so mentioned this, like, they heard about this.

And you kind of said, like, well, that's my truth. Like, that's my reality right now.

So, did something specific happen that, like, around that time you felt like, okay, I'm getting out this mindset?

Or do you think it's just kind of accepting that, all right, this is, you know, my this is the path I'm on right now?

I gotta keep going, like one day forward, and just keep taking baby steps to get to a better tomorrow.

Sara Sabatino

Exactly. I think at the time, I didn't realize it, but I was very slowly healing. I was taking little steps to kind of wake up, try and be in a better mood every day that I would wake up.

I really tried to keep myself busy. So that was actually a good turning point for me was, you know, when we moved, we moved into the suburbs, I lost touch with my gym.

So having the ability to kind of start over and be in this new apartment that was closer to the city, I was able to rejoin gyms. I was able to start working out again. Um, that was very healing.

I got to go to yoga, uh, start meditating more. So those things kind of started getting me back on track and started getting me to accept my situation.

And then news spreads, you know. So, people started finding out about it that I wasn't telling.

And I had to just accept it and say, yeah, that is what happened, and this is the story, and that's all you need to know.

Rob Loveless

And you know, I think being on your own, there's two sides of the coin. On one side, it could be very liberating and exciting. You have your freedom.

Or on the other side, it could be very lonely and isolating. And I think, you know, correct me if I'm wrong. But I think when he first moved in, it was definitely the latter, where you felt very alone.

You know, like we had said, you've been, you know, you had not been on your own this entire time, and now, all of a sudden, plans change.

You're not on the path you thought you were. You're on your own. So, what did you kind of do to?

Because I see you now as a very independent person. You love trying new things. You know, you'll do them, you'll do things with your current fiancé or by yourself.

You're, you know, whatever. How did you kind of shift that being on your own, you know, from being I'm lonely, I feel isolated to, you know, this is liberating for me?

Sara Sabatino

There must have just been a switch that flipped at some point where, you know, after like, probably six months, I just started to get my ground, my footing back.

And I turned into a completely different person than I used to be. I became much more outgoing. I wanted to try new things.

I didn't have to worry about putting somebody else into the equation. I was able to just focus on myself and my cat, who also helped me get through very many nights.

And, you know, going off of, being able to just have that freedom to come and go from my place to pay my own bills to, you know, eat dinner when I wanted to eat dinner, that was kind of when I started to say, this isn't so bad.

Like what I went through was terrible, but I can't let that control my life. I need to start moving forward. I need things to get better for me and for my cat.

So, at some point, I'd say, about six months after the move-out date, that's kind of when I started enjoying my apartment, and, you know, liking the area that I was in and liking the headspace that I was getting to.

Rob Loveless

Yeah, and I remember too, you took a work trip and you told me, like, you went to a brewery and you just brought a book with you, and like, went to the brewery and had a drink by yourself.

And that's something even, you know, when I'm in the best head space, I think I'd be a little bit nervous to do, just because I'm shy and stuff.

But I think that, and that was probably around six months after you had, you know, moved out of your house and everything. So, I think really, you just kind of weren't afraid anymore.

Sara Sabatino

It was, yeah, that's something I never would have done on my own.

And, ladies and gentlemen, if you are ever feeling sad at any point, just take a book to a brewery, go sit down, have a flight.

You will be amazed at how many random men and women come up and talk to you and ask you what you're reading. Wonderful way to meet people.

Rob Loveless

Also, reading is a really good hobby to pick up. So do something good for your brain. So, you know, I know we're kind of talking just in general about, you know, the headspace, the routine, all that stuff.

Healing from the Breakup (23:02)

Rob Loveless

But is there anything specific, you know, besides my phone calls, that you think helped you survive the breakup?

Was, you know, getting, I feel like we definitely kind of, you know, we've always been good friends, but I think our friendship kind of went to a different level at that point.

But, you know, did you reconnect with others? Were there new activities you tried?

Or, you know, just, I mean, you kind of touched upon that, but just a little bit more specifics of what specifically helped you survive the breakup.

Sara Sabatino

Yeah, I definitely learned to rely more on my friends.

I think at some point everybody gets into a headspace where you contact your friends and you're sometimes you feel like, oh, I'm annoying them.

Like, I don't want them to feel, like, pressured to answer me, blah, blah, blah. And I got into a headspace where I was like, Nope, I need my friends, and they're my friends, so they're going to be there for me.

And you know, it brought me a lot closer to my friends and saying, these are my people. I need them. If they really are my friends, then they're going to be there for me.

And everybody who I thought was my friends, they remained to be exactly who I knew that they were, and they were all there for me whenever I needed them.

And that was really important to me. So that helped me connect a lot with my friends and helped me form, um, closer relationships than I had had.

Rob Loveless

And, you know, there's a lot of good stuff there. But do you think, are there any mistakes you think you made along the way that maybe hurt you more during that time?

Or maybe, like, set you back where you thought, like, okay, I'm doing okay. I'm doing okay.

And then maybe you did something or whatever, that then made you, like, remember your old life or something like that, and seemed more like a setback than helping you.

Sara Sabatino

So many things. So, one of the good things that came out of it: I had my very first one-night stand. So being with my ex-husband, he was the only one I had ever been with.

So, it was very liberating to just go out and have a one-night stand. But you know, I got to a point where I started kind of craving attention again. I really wanted somebody.

And I did rush into things with some other, with guys, way before I was ready to move on, and started kind of using them as a sounding board for what I was feeling and needing things from them that they weren't ready to give me and they didn't want to give me, which definitely hurt my recovery process.

So specific person, let's call him bleep we.

Rob Loveless

Hate him.

Sara Sabatino

He kind of came out of the woodwork from my past. We struck up a bit of a relationship at the six-month mark, and that was not healthy for me.

And it wasn't healthy for him either, to just dive into a recently divorced woman. Oh, literally, pardon. But, you know, it is something that I learned from and I did have to again, you know, separate myself.

Kind of view this as, what are you doing? This isn't healthy. This isn't what you need right now. You need to recover. You need to grow. You do not need men.

You have friends. You have their attention. What are you doing, girl? Put it down.

Rob Loveless

Put the dick down.

Sara Sabatino

Put the dick down.

Getting Back in the Dating Game (25:53)

Rob Loveless

I think that's a good transition, too, because, I mean, it's not wrong to want, you know, healthy attention, you know, and healthy partnership, healthy relationship.

So, when did you know, okay, I'm ready to date again? This is a healthier time. Because you just talked about that situation where you thought you were ready to but you weren't.

How did you get to the point where you knew you were ready to date again?

Sara Sabatino

It took a lot of inward reflection. I again had to break off that first relationship, focus on myself for a couple more months, and I don't know.

I just started, I started waking up in the morning and thinking, all right, things aren't so bad anymore. Like I'm happy, I'm I'm alive. I am happy. I am loving my apartment.

I love the things that I'm doing. So, this, I might be able to start, you know, not seriously dating, but maybe just start seeing what else is out there, because I honestly missed all of that while I was in college.

A lot of my friends were dating in college, and I was dating the same person for the four years that I was there. So, I, you know, I missed out on all that stuff, even going into grad school.

Whenever I would go out with my grad school friends, like, I was still missing out on the the dating scene. So, I kind of woke up and I was excited to explore it.

And I remember going to my parents and telling them and saying, you know, I think I'm ready to start dating again. And they were apprehensive at first. I think they wanted me to have a little more time.

But you know, ultimately, it was my choice, and I, I stuck with it.

Rob Loveless

And that was a big shift for you, because when you first started your ex, obviously it was 2010, your freshman year of college.

And now it's, at the time it was 2019, you're not in our little quiet hometown anymore. You're in the big city, and on top of that, you're using dating apps.

So, what was that experience like of being on dating apps for the first time?

Sara Sabatino

Oh, I got my ass kicked. Like it was just such an experience I was not ready for. And I don't mean that as I wasn't ready for it.

I just, I came from a small town, I met my ex-husband in a small town. I wasn't ready for the dating life of the city. I wasn't ready for playboys.

I wasn't ready for, you know, all of the little annoyances that come with dating. But overall, I had relatively good luck.

I did pick good guys that showed me new experiences, that showed me around the city. A lot of them that weren't pushy and they were kind of exciting to get to meet them.

And eventually, you know, the online app started to turn into a little bit of a game where it was more exciting to just see what was out there and what was around.

You know, I think that was also, in a way, in its own way, healing because I was able to then kind of see what else is out there.

Now, this was my time to say, what do I want? You know, I've had this relationship. So, what do I want that can make something in the future better?

Rob Loveless

And by the time that you got on the apps, did it make you miss your relationship at all, or make you feel lonely? Or was it more exciting?

Because it's like, hey, clean slate. You know, new sea of fish to to, you know, go through. Because, you know, in the past, I've kind of gone in phases where I'm like, all in.

Like, I want to date, I want to put myself out there, and then I might be on for a week, and then after a week, like, I'm just, like, I, you know, I'm barely talking to anybody on here.

I'm so lonely and feel like shit. And then I'm deleting the apps because I just, it's more isolating for me than it is, you know, exciting that there could be a possibility of meeting somebody.

So how did you feel getting on the apps?

Sara Sabatino

You know, when I first started getting on the apps, you know, there was that a little bit of longing for the serious relationship.

For the security that I had in the past. But overall, it was more exciting than anything. You know, it was exciting.

I like to meet people, so it was exciting to meet a stranger, sit down and have dinner and just talk and see what their their life is like, and see what kind of things they do with their free time.

Like that was exciting for me. I enjoyed that conversation that you have on the first date where you get to, like, meet them, talk to them, see what their interests are, and you know what they can do for you.

Rob Loveless

Sexually?

Sara Sabatino

Sexually.

Rob Loveless

And just, like, getting to know a person, even if it's not meant to, you know, be anything further than just meeting them one time for dinner drinks.

Just basically getting to to meet somebody new. Hear about new experiences, things like that.

Sara Sabatino

Yeah, it was nice to just have that little, that little reprieve.

Rob Loveless

And you never once felt, like, you know, you missed the past or lonely, like, even when you saw your husband on Tinder? Or, I should say, ex-husband.

Sara Sabatino

My ex-husband using our wedding photo. Just saying.

Rob Loveless

Yeah, tell us about that.

Sara Sabatino

Oh, you know, I came across him on Tinder and stared at it for a second.

Contemplated matching with him just for fun.

Rob Loveless

Just to see if she still had it.

Sara Sabatino

Just to see what would have happened. But ultimately, just kind of moved on. Swiped left, if you will.

Rob Loveless

Yeah, and I think that's, you know, I think we would both agree, you know, advice for anybody out there.

If you see your ex on a dating app, just hard left. Swipe no.

Sara Sabatino

Especially if he's in his wedding tuxedo.

Rob Loveless

Literally. At least he had the decency to crop her out of the picture.

Sara Sabatino

Yes, that was nice.

Rob Loveless

But, you know, going off of that. I know, I don't know if this is just a me thing or if this is, you know, a normal thing for post-breakups.

I think some of the people I've dated in the past, I've built them up so much and put them on this pedestal, and I've been anxious around them.

And then seeing them after, you know, we break up. Well, one after a breakup, in the past, along with loneliness, I'd feel a little, like, sadness, like I'm never gonna know this person, gonna know.

I don't mean, like, in a creepy way, but, like, I'm not gonna know what's going on in their life.

Like this person that I talked to every day, who, you know, we talk about work or this or that, I'm not going to know what's going on with them anymore.

And then, in addition to that, you know, if I saw them out, you know, I like that breakup in 2019 I went through.

I remember I was actually coming to Philly that day, and I just, I was driving by to get a coffee beforehand in in Pittsburgh, here, before I go on the road.

And I'm driving down, and I see my ex walking down the road, and it had been probably, like, three months at that point, but I remember just, again, I felt my stomach drop like I was going to be sick.

I just got so nauseous and anxious seeing him. And that's been not just with that one ex, that's been with a few people I've seen. You know, after the breakup.

And in Pittsburgh, it's a small community out here, so it's really, you can't really avoid everyone.

Moving On (32:00)

Rob Loveless

But seeing your ex, you know, on Tinder or, you know, even beyond that, I know, throughout the process of the divorce, you had to meet a few times for, like, tax stuff and things like that.

Did that bring up any anxious feelings or any sadness, and how did you deal with that?

Sara Sabatino

Yeah, I mean, I tried to get him to want to have sex with me, like, every first couple of times that we hung out. But, you know, it didn't work. Uh, probably for the best.

But, um, you know, it was hard for the first couple times, but eventually, it did get easier. I remember the first time we met after the separation was to do stuff with taxes, and that was hard.

And then another time that we met, he was sick, so I tried taking care of him. I tried kind of being the wife again, and then just kind of had to look at it and say, what are you doing? Like, stop here.

You don't belong here. This isn't your house anymore. Like, get out. And eventually, it just started to get easier to see him.

Even now, like, I see pictures of him online. Somehow, we're still Facebook friends, which we probably shouldn't be anymore.

Rob Loveless

Yeah, she'll unfriend him after this episode.

Sara Sabatino

Yes, actually. But I do see pictures of him, and I, it's just somebody that I don't miss. And it's hard sometimes to actually look back. And I don't really remember a lot.

So, I don't know if that was just the trauma of going through the divorce, but I don't remember a whole lot about our relationship.

You know, good or bad. It's just a piece of my past now.

Rob Loveless

You know how you said you're not looking back on the past. Again, 2019 was rough for both of us. We remember that time we went to the movies together and I ended up crying after.

Um, but I, you know, that, around that time, you know, that was one of the worst experiences I'd been in. Not even at the, you know, the hands of the other person.

But I just remember feeling like really shitty around that time. I was anxious all the time. There was so much sadness and loneliness beyond just the dating.

Like, you know, my job was not going well all the time, all that stuff.

And so, I think that's been something too that, again, now it's years later, but you know, as I was getting out of that situation, I think it helped that I stopped looking to the past as much because, you know, I knew I didn't want to feel that way.

And again, not that it was the other person's fault, necessarily, but I knew if this was the right situation for me to be in, I would not be feeling these things.

I'd not be feeling this out of control emotionally. And I think that's been something that's kind of been my litmus test going forward, you know, in the present, where I know, like, I don't want to feel.

And not even just dating, but any situation, I don't want to feel a certain way. Like, if a job makes me feel this way, if this makes me feel this way, this is an indicator it's not the right thing for me.

So, I need to figure out my next, you know, my next course correct, my next plan of action, so I don't get back to that place.

Sara Sabatino

I never want to feel that way again. You know, I don't think anybody ever wants to feel that heart-wrenching, gut-wrenching, disgusting feeling of a breakup.

So, you know, knock on wood, you know, I won't feel that again. Like nobody ever wants to feel that way from the past. You know, never, nobody ever wants to feel the feeling of a breakup.

Rob Loveless

And you know, we're getting close to wrapping up here.

The one thing I did want to talk about is, you know, I think the very beginning of 2019 is when you separated, and towards the end of 2019 is when you started dating your now fiancé.

And also, at the very end of 2019 I believe, is when, like, your divorce was finalized.

So, you know, given everything going on, from start to finish in 2019, when you got to the point where the divorce was finalized, what did you feel at that time when it was officially over?

Sara Sabatino

When the divorce actually went through, you know, not entirely shocking to me, but I was the one who kind of had to spearhead the paperwork and spearhead the entire divorce process because he really drug his feet.

He wasn't that interested in really doing much. So, I remember going to the courthouse, filing all the paperwork, when everything finally went through, sobbing to the individual at the checkout line, telling her that.

Shockingly, divorces cost a lot more than it does to get married, just saying.

So, handing her my credit card, crying, and then being on my way and actually going from there to meet my, well, then-boyfriend's, now fiancé, but then-boyfriend's parents for dinner, because it was the beginning of Hanukkah.

So, we had to go to Hanukkah dinner that night. And it was, while, it was sad at the moment, while we were, while I was in the courthouse, and in the middle of things, you know, I was more of a sense of relief after I left.

I was happy that things were finally moving forward. I was happy to kind of be free, in a sense.

You know, I had been free for about a little bit over a year at that point, so it was nice to actually have the the paperwork done and just have that sense of freedom going forward.

Episode Closing (36:38)

Rob Loveless

And, you know, coming up on the end of the episode, I think it's pretty easy to connect to connect to the tarot, because today we drew the Three of Swords in reverse, you know, indicating that we're moving on from sorrow.

We're releasing pain and moving forward.

We've definitely talked a lot about how to do that, you know, going through, you know, the beginning phases of a breakup to coming out on the other side, stronger, better than ever.

So just, do you have any closing words of wisdom or advice for anybody who is currently going through a breakup?

Sara Sabatino

You know, it sucks, and nobody says it's fun, but it really does suck going through a breakup. But that's also the time where you really have to, like, look inside yourself, see what you need as a person.

Like, what do you need to grow? What do you need to feel your best? What do you need out of the next relationship?

Like, there has to be things that you weren't happy about in the relationship, or else it wouldn't have ended.

So, you know, what could be done better next time? And how are you going to get yourself there?

And then just always remember to lean on your friends because if they are truly your friends, they will always be there for you no matter how annoying or sad you are.

Rob Loveless

Very true. Well, thank you again, Sara, for joining us today. I think this was great.

Connect with A Jaded Gay (37:36)

Rob Loveless

I hope you all enjoyed this. Everyone out there, please remember to rate, review, and subscribe to the podcast. You can contact me rob@ajadedgay.com.

You can follow the podcast on Instagram and TikTok @ajadedgaypod. Also, on YouTube @ajadedgaypod.

As a reminder, you can become a fan of the show on Patreon for as little as $5 a month. Any donations from that go to supporting the podcast with production, video stuff for YouTube, all that.

So, I greatly appreciate it. Thanks again for listening.

And as always, every day is all we have, so you got to make your own happiness.

Mmm-bye.

Outtake (38:33)

Rob Loveless

So how did you feel getting on the apps?

Sara Sabatino

Um. I had an answer for this, and that it started to go away because you kept talking. Um.