140. Calling All Allies: It’s Time to Step Up (with Greg Baird)

Snarky Opener (0:00)

Greg Baird

I thought, probably to be honest with you, there was a lack of allyship at times in my life, and that's why I felt like it was needed more than ever.

Episode Introduction (0:29)

Rob Loveless

Hello, my LGBTQuties, and welcome back to another episode of A Jaded Gay. I'm Rob Loveless and, today, I am a non-jaded gay because I did a little retail therapy.

So lately, I don't know, I've just been feeling a little frumpy. I've just been wearing the same sweatsuits over and over because it's winter. I haven't left my house too much.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm doing my laundry obviously. I just have like, you know, five sweatsuits to get me through the week.

But yeah, I just felt kind of like blah, and then I started watching the new season of Queer Eye last night.

I know I'm way behind, but really just kind of inspired me to want to dress up a little bit and feel a little bit more, I don't know, inspired in my wardrobe.

But at the gym this morning, instead of doom scrolling on Instagram, I went on to Macy's, and I just, you know, checked out all the different men's fashion there.

And I bought myself a cardigan and a couple undershirts for that, and then a couple tank tops for the summer. And like, not like workout tank tops, but kind of more fashionable tank tops.

At least, that's what I'm hoping for. You know, like I said, these guys on Queer Eye, they're really kind of inspiring me to step up my fashion game.

So, I'm trying to model some of their looks. But who knows, I might just fall flat on that.

Allyship (1:36)

Rob Loveless

Anyway, from style tips to allyship, today, I am very excited to welcome another special guest who's going to talk to us all about LGBTQ+ civil rights and how we can engage our allies.

And this topic is more important than ever. Just as you've seen the past two less than two months since Trump took office, that it's it's been a little bit of a rocky, turbulent time, to say the least.

And as we've talked about in past episodes, I think for a lot of the straight population, they see pride every June. Oh, that's fun. Hey, the gays got the right to get married in 2015.

Things are great with them. And really, that's like the tip of the iceberg.

A lot of people don't even know about the history of Pride, and there are still so many inequalities we face on a daily basis, on top of just basic bigotry and hate.

So, we're going to talk all about how we can better engage our allies. But first, you know the drill, let's pull our tarot card.

Tarot (2:29)

Rob Loveless

So, for this episode, we drew The Lovers in reverse, which is a Major Arcana card. As you remember, Major Arcana cards signify big changes in our life, and The Lovers is number six in the Major Arcana which is tied to harmony and reciprocity.

It also follows five, which is sometimes referred to as the conflict number. So, this can represent that we've just moved on from hardship.

And we also see The Lovers appear on another card in the Major Arcana, The Devil, which is tied to addiction and self-sabotage.

So, when we draw The Lovers in reverse, it's telling us that a relationship is out of balance, usually because someone is relying too much on the other.

So, we may feel out of sync with those around us, and as a result, our communication might feel strained. 

This card also relates to our self-love and respect, and it encourages us to make decisions based off of our values. And to fix this imbalance, we need to understand what our source of disharmony is.

So, we need to look within and once we identify it, we can take the next step and address it in a way that aligns with our values.

And ultimately, if the relationship will never be reciprocated, then it may be time to walk away, as difficult as that may be.

So definitely a more serious card, something to noodle on as we get into this episode.

Guest Introduction (3:39)

Rob Loveless

But without further ado, I am excited to welcome our guest. He is a global lecturer and educator on LGBTQ+ civil rights. Please welcome Greg Baird. Hi Greg. How are you today?

Greg Baird

I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on your podcast today.

Rob Loveless

Of course, thanks for coming on. Like we said before we started recording, I'm really excited for this topic. I think it's always important to talk about, but especially politically now more than ever.

You, you seem to be a wealth of knowledge, so I'm excited to get all your insights for this and share it with the listeners.

Before we get too much in the episode, though, can you just introduce yourself to the listeners? Tell us a little bit about your career, who you are, pronouns, identities, all that fun stuff?

Greg Baird

Sure. My name is Greg R. Baird. I am a global lecturer on LGBTQ+ civil rights, allyship, community. The list could go on, anti-gay, anti-bullying. It's kind of everything and the kitchen sink a little bit.

I am in Chicago, Illinois, and I've been doing lectures, I started off basically high school, and you know, if you were in college, I was the person that got hired by your Student Activities people to come in.

So, I worked in higher ed, professionally, and being hired when I first started, and that was 31 years ago, that was part-time and full-time it's been since 2003. So, I made a big career change.

I was working at a college in northern Michigan in higher ed, and I was Director of Student Life and was the adjunct theater and acting professor.

And just thought, I'm going to follow my, what I felt my legacy is. And we can get a little bit more into that later.

But yeah, so I'm in Chicago, and when COVID hit, everything kind of went virtual, so I do a lot of things from home, and I still do travel occasionally.

It's getting a little bit better, but it's kind of interesting sitting behind a computer screen, and I'm very motivated when, when I'm on stage and doing my talks and everything, and so it's hard for me to be self-contained sitting behind a desk because I love what I do.

I'm very passionate about it, so yeah. Oh, and by the way, my pronouns are he/him/his. But yeah, that's a little bit about my background.

I have a unique story, and probably some of that will come out in your questions today.

Rob Loveless

Definitely. I'm excited to dive into all of that. Before we do though, I like to ask all my guests today, are you a jaded or non-jaded gay and why?

Greg Baird

Oh, I kind of, I'm kind of in between a little bit. But probably lately I feel more jaded.

Rob Loveless

I get it, I think, you know, for a lot of people, it seems like it's a day-to-day basis. Some days could be non-jaded. Some days could be jaded.

Although I don't want to speak for you, for myself, personally, I'd say the past month or so has been leaning more towards jaded on a daily basis.

Greg Baird

Oh yeah, I'm kind of in the red zone right now.

Rob Loveless

Well, hopefully talking through everything allyship, community, dismantling hate today, we can turn the jadedness into non-jaded for all the listeners out there.

Well, I guess, just to kick everything off, you kind of gave us a little bit of an overview about your career. 

So, can you tell us more about what inspired your journey into advocating for allyship and fostering inclusion for the LGBTQ+ community?

Greg Baird

Yeah. So, I grew up in a very small town in Michigan, and if you know, Michigan is shaped like a mitt, and if you're from, like a mitten.

And so those of us from Michigan, when people go, where are you from, you point to your hand, kind of ridiculous thing.

But so, I came from a very bigoted and very non-inclusive family growing up upper-middle-class small town, and so when I went to college, you know, I really feel that a lot of people blossom when they get to college, especially if you identify as LGBTQ+, and back then we just, it was just gay, that's all you said. 

Like my first meeting I went to at Central Michigan University in Michigan, it was called Gay Lesbian Association for Student Support. And so, we had meetings that were more kind of politically based, and a lot of discussion about HIV/AIDS because that was on the forefront in the 90s.

And also, you know, we had our little room where we met, and a lot of fear, you know, hiding and going around campus and everything. So, everything kind of started then, and I got a boyfriend.

I guess maybe I was a little bit more bold then, but we were the token gay couple that would go into the residence halls and start speaking to students.

And and then the first class, and I tell this on my lecture program, which is quite humorous, we were invited to a social, one of those required classes to take, and it was called social problems of all things. 

And the social problem class, they listed gay folks, gays, and lesbians as social problems, which I look back now and I cringe, but we were up on a panel like it was Oprah. And so, there was, like a couple gay guys, two lesbians, no non- non-binary or transgender.

That was just not something that was even in our wheelhouse at the time. And I think our straight, and we had a straight and a gay advisor, and you know, we went down the row and they were talking to us and stuff.

And I was kind of giggling during that time when they invited us because I just thought it was the most, it felt like it was a kind of therapy session or, you know, like a AA meeting where you're all sitting around, you had Hi, my name is Greg. I'm gay. You know, that kind of thing.

So that was my first taste. And I just felt like there was a need to be out there and share our stories, and as my life went on from there, I worked at Interlochen Center for the Arts up in northern Michigan, world-renowned music school, theater, dance.

And I started the first gay-straight alliance under a lot of scrutiny because I was out then and in charge of junior and senior high school boys. You can imagine the talk, you know, when some parents that were not so open-minded knew that their hall director for their child was gay.

But I really went forward and got on some local boards there and and finding my my tribe, and it just blossomed.

So, and I started speaking more and doing more, and then when I was at my college in northern Michigan, I was director of a lecture series, so it got my foot in the door, and I met some really influential people, and it went from there.

And I just thought, you know, what am I going to do for the rest of my life? And you kind of, I talk about your legacy and what our legacy is, and even if you're a straight ally or you're part of the community or a minority group, whatever, you know what in your gut, what your legacy is and what you're going to go forward to do.

And I gave up a lot, and came to Northern Michigan, you know, I was the big fish in the small pond at my college, and then that got reversed when I came here.

And you know, I always say, even, like with teachers, when you're fighting for human rights, you're not a millionaire, but you're a millionaire in other ways.

What is Allyship? (10:51)

Rob Loveless

With that being said, obviously, you have a strong background in allyship and fostering allyship through lectures, community building.

So how do you define allyship, and why is it so important in today's political and social climate?

Greg Baird

I talk about allyship all the time, and I think currently I tell people, and it's kind of my way of thinking is I call people that are allies our co-conspirators or collaborators or accomplice.

And I think that's a great way of putting it. It's a sense of friendship, kinship, but it's something, it's something not really who you are, but it's being an authentic ally, and it's giving up your your power, your privilege, if you have that, for people that are in a minority group, and it gives access to leadership. 

And I think that's so important right now because I know a lot of people are so frustrated with how things are going. We really have, need to have access to our allies and be there, however small.

You know, there's a lot of people that are in remote areas, and I'm kind of in the bubble here in Chicago, like some people are, and we need to understand those kind of communities and what we're doing, and how you're giving up your power, your resources, your position, to help other people.

Rob Loveless

Separate from the work you do, do you have any personal examples of how allyship impacted your life?

Greg Baird

I thought, probably to be honest with you, there was a lack of allyship at times in my life, and that's why I felt like it was needed more than ever to do the work that I do.

I've run into some people. I remember when I was in high school, I'm still in touch with her, actually. A art teacher and she was my only safe haven I had in school.

You know, you you know a lot of these kids we have, if we don't have allies or people that are looking out for us, you know, the kids in school are running, you know, fearfully from one room to another, hopefully, they're not going to be banged against a locker, you know, bullied, mistreated, or whatever.

And you know, she was my source of just peace and everything, and she still is to this day. And you know, she's a retired teacher, but I've had some of those.

I have classmates that I get together with a couple times a year in my home in my small town, and they, if they were here right now, they would all be laughing, because they would say, oh, and they call me Greggy.

They go, we know Greggy, we knew Greggy was gay before he did, you know, and they're my allies too, so they're around. But I think some people, from just things that I'm watching, are afraid of being an ally, and how involved is that going to be, and, you know, is that going to affect my safety and things like that? 

So, it's a whole different kind of arena that we're in right now and something we can elaborate a little bit more as we go on.

Rob Loveless

And to your point, I think for a while it seems like people, you know, straight allies, would see Pride celebrations and maybe they'd partake in that.

And then gay marriage was legalized in 2015 so it's, yay, things are great for gay people, when really that's kind of the tip of the iceberg.

And now you see corporations like Target, who last year, had started removing some Pride-themed merchandise from their stores, which goes to show they like to benefit from LGBTQ+ rights when it's the popular/"trendy" thing to do, but when they start receiving some pushback, they're going to fold up.

So, with that in mind, what are some common misconceptions about being an ally to the LGBTQ+ community, and this includes both at the individual level and corporate level?

Greg Baird

It's it's interesting what you just mentioned about, you know, our allies will come to Pride and like, oh, this is great. You know, we can have a few drinks, and, you know, the banners, and we can watch the boys on the float, or the girls on the float, whoever.

And and then we leave. And then we, you know, we had gay marriage, and they were all there for equality. And then where are they now kind of thing? So, when you declare yourself an ally, you are declaring yourself as a level of support and a continuous level of support.

I think some people say, well, I'm an ally, you know, I love, I love, I love the gay crowd, or whatever they may say. You know, they and it starts more of action. We have these things called optical allyship.

And optical allyship is, and we all do it, when it's Black Lives Matter, or it's like, right now it's Black History Month, everybody will change their computer screen to something, you know, their cover or on Facebook, that's optical allyship.

Or if they have a little Pride flag or progress flag on their desk, that's optical allyship. And then they say, well, I'm done. That's, that's my thing. I'm done. I'm an ally.

Well, allies may struggle to recognize their own privilege and how it contributes to the marginalization of others, and that's where the education piece comes in, because, as you and I both know, and a lot of people, marginalized groups do not take a break, and our allies should not do that either.

So, asking the allies, unpack your privilege, and engage in self-reflection and education. We all have our biases. We all have our prejudice that we either we grew up with or the allies grew up with and with these corporations, they need to stand up.

You know, I know, like Costco, United Airlines, there's some that have stood up and said, you know, we're not getting rid of DEI. And I think the misconception about DEI is they're just hiring people to kind of level the field kind of thing.

And what they need to understand is, DEI is about merit, about hiring somebody of merit that has, you know, the educational, the experience, things like that, that we want to be fair. And I think there's just been a lot of uneducated choices.

And it's unfortunate that these companies are coming up to us at, you know, they also have their hand the pot, I think, with some of the conservatives and what's going on, and it's like, well, if we do this, well, you may not get our long-term support or money.

And it's, it's a sad situation. It really is. You want somebody that's bold and proud and not just there when it's right for them, but when it's right all the time.

How to Educate Allies (17:30)

Rob Loveless

I think, with the people we surround ourselves with, you know, we have family members and friends who continue having a relationship with us after we come out.

They think that makes them an ally. But there's a difference between really supporting and advocating for us, as opposed to just having a relationship with somebody.

And same thing with corporations. It's great to say that you value diversity, but what's the action behind that?

You know, changing your logo at Pride to a rainbow, or having that rainbow flag on your desk, they're great symbols, but where's the action behind that?

And like you said, there's an educational piece that has to be done there. So how can LGBTQ+ individuals help allies recognize and dismantle their own biases to create stronger partnerships?

Greg Baird

I think you got to understand your background, where you came from, and what's your current educational and you know what was instilled to you. I call it brainwashing. I was brainwashed as a kid on different kinds of communities, all communities, by the way, that were different than being a cis, white male, upper middle class.

So, you have to first recognize that and dismantle that, and you do that by show up to people in solidarity. Presentations, lectures, planning committees, things like that. The other thing is to get to know your colleagues. We live in a world right now where we really don't understand one another.

It's universal, and so we need to share our stories, and one of my main things in my lecture program is sharing our stories, because our stories changes hearts and minds and policies.

So that dismantles a lot of things that we've gone through for our allies, it breaks down a lot of barriers, so we can talk and we find out that we're more alike than we are different, but then the difference does not need to be something that's negative.

Our differences need to be celebrated as long as they're a positive difference. So, it's a lot of collaborating and being there for each other, building bridges. And you know, don't be afraid to respond to behaviors that, yeah, that you may see or past precedents.

You know, voice them, be heard, and an ally just doesn't let things go. You know, some things can be very uncomfortable to talk about. You know, I've had discussions with people, even my own family, had a lot of prejudices.

And there's kind of this curve where there's people, and this is the problem that happens on social media a lot, and people get angry, like, wow, they're not on my team. They're not on my side.

And we have this curve where there's people that you can reach out to and there's people that you can't and then there's people that kind of in that learning curve that's in the middle, that are there, like, educate me. I want to know more.

And don't go after the ones, we know the people that we see on Facebook, Instagram, wherever it may be, TikTok, that are not on our side.

Don't waste your time and energy on that, because we have a tendency as human beings that we if we have all this great stuff going on and you have this one bad moment, or one bad thing that's said to you, or one bad thing that you've seen, what are you going to concentrate on the rest of the day?

Not all this good stuff that's happening. You're going to concentrate on this thing that ticked you off or you saw or you couldn't, you know, encourage somebody to be a better person or change their behavior, change, you know, what they may be doing.

So, you got to dismantle your own biases. And we've had that, you know, as the LGBTQ+ community, we've had those instilled with us for a long time, and we need to do better. We need to really do better.

Rob Loveless

With that in mind, I did want to circle back to the piece you brought up about DEI and how it’s merit based. Years ago, I had worked for a company that wanted to do these round tables every month to promote marginalized voices.

So, every month it corresponded to a different diversity event. This wasn't done at the, from, like, an office of DEI or at, you know, an HR level. It was just one of the larger organizations within the company who did it within their own organization. So, employees that fell in that organization.

And for Pride Month, I, you know, I usually helped coordinate these. So, for Pride Month, I was working on coordinating this, and they needed speakers at a certain level.

So, because they were leadership roundtables, it couldn't just be any employee. It had to be an employee at a certain job classification.

And they had their four identified speakers for this who identified openly as being part of the LGBTQ+ community.

However, as we were planning it out, one of those people actually was not at the job level that was high enough for it to be considered for that.

And they had, I mean, they did so much advocacy work, they also they had intersecting identities, so they they could really bring a much deeper, more nuanced perspective to this conversation, but they weren't high enough level for this.

And there was nobody else that the people planning this at the company level knew of that was of that job level and of an LGBTQ+ identity.

So, they came back to me and said, well, can we have somebody at that job level as a straight ally speak since there's somebody that's not at that level within the LGBTQ+ community?

And in my mind, I'm reading this email to me, and I'm saying, like, do you not see the hypocrisy or the problem? Like that is the problem.

There's not enough people promoted to this job level to have their voices heard throughout the company. It's not just about hiring LGBTQ+ talent.

It's are you giving them the same opportunities to develop their career as you would a straight, cisgender white man?

So, with that in mind, what are some specific strategies allies can use to create a more inclusive and accepting atmosphere in their workplaces and communities?

Greg Baird

Well, I get this question a lot, and I always tell people, so you're probably referring to like an ERG group, employee resource group, those kinds of things. A lot of those have been eliminated now.

So, I think we need to come together now. Those DEI programs are no longer in your workplace. You still can get together with your colleagues that are there. You know, bring in the lectures, bring in other people. Have certain days or certain things that you can have discussions.

If you're not, can't have those at work, do it outside of work. You know, find your sense of community, whether it's over like a cocktail or appetizers or something, you know, later.

But I think the employees need to show up for one another in solidarity and say, okay, you've gotten rid of DEI but we're still going to embrace our fellow employees and be there in solidarity.

So, like company, community events, presentations, planning, and not only know your colleagues that are at work, but you know, foster those friendships that are there outside of work as well. We, like I've said earlier, we live in fear because we're not communicating.

And if you don't understand non-binary or a transgender person, have a conversation with somebody that is. If you, if there's a person at work that is being looked over because maybe of color, how awful is that?

Or because of how they identify, have a conversation with them, get them in the mix of things in your workplace, and share your missions together on allyship is the most important. Not everybody's at the same level as everybody else.

Not everybody needs to be going to a Pride parade and standing on a float. Some people, you know, our happy to do their own part. Learn the individual skills of other people at work.

When the opportunity arises, have them join in, if you're having these breakout sessions, or breakout kind of things that they're doing on working on individual skills, or individual kind of collaborating and planning include people. That's the best way of doing it.

And it breaks down those barriers. It breaks down the walls of people at your work. I've seen that happen firsthand. I saw that when I worked at a pretty conservative college when I was in northern Michigan, and, you know, there was, again, that curve that I talked about.

Some people are like, I don't want to hear about it, but reach out to the ones I can. And you can break down a lot of those walls and mobilize a lot of people for equality and inclusion in your workplace.

Have that always blend over into your community, though. You know, it's not just the workplace, but have it blend over into the community.

Rob Loveless

And to your point of kind of going back to the education and engaging allies, we talked about how, you know, some people have incorrectly assumed, oh, things are fine for LGBTQ+ people.

Marriage equality was passed in 2015, I have a relationship with somebody who's LGBTQ+ so because I accept them, that means I'm an ally. And that's obviously not the case.

So, in my own life, personally, I've tried to some of the people around me. I've tried to get them more engaged in some LGBTQ+ issues. So, for my family, for Christmas this year, as part of their Christmas gift, I got everybody an HRC, Human Rights Campaign, window decal.

One, buying that, the proceeds goes to their cause, and then two, obviously just, I mean, it's a symbol, but it's at least something to kind of get them showing that, hey, you know, they support equality.

And I've also, especially as some of the political turmoil has been going on, I've been sharing articles in group chats with them about like, hey, this is what's going on.

Because a lot of times I feel LGBTQ+ issues don't always bubble up to the headline news as other topics like the economy.

And I think they get a little annoyed sometimes with it, but in my mind, I'm like, well, if I'm being bogged down by this 24/7 like, I'm gonna share the misery with you so you're aware. But those are just two small steps.

I'm wondering, besides that, are there any other actionable ways we, as LGBTQ+ people, can educate the allies in our life, especially to inspire them to advocate for change in the face of opposition?

Greg Baird

You know, invite them to festivals and events and films and lectures, things like that, to talk about other communities. I also feel that, you know, some people within our own community, the LGBTQ+ community, are checked out.

I was just talking to somebody yesterday, and I've seen an influx of a lot of youth, LGBTQ+ youth, that are calling the Trevor Project. They're calling helplines. You know, that's a great way to get involved as an ally as well is be one of the phone monitors for the Trevor Project.

But I was talking with him, and he goes, oh, I didn't know that what's going on with the DEI and the anti-transgender and the anti-non-binary is that affecting our youth?

And I kind of looked at him sideways. I go what? And so, I think it's not just our straight allies. We need to reach out and engage and talk with each other in in our our communities, but it's all, Rob, it's all about engagement. It's being there.

And you know what you're doing with your own family, the stickers I've done the same thing, or, you know, t-shirts, things like that. My chosen family in northern Michigan, their son, who's 13, 13, 14, gave me a t-shirt that said guncle on it.

And I love stuff like that. I mean, you know, you would think somebody, a young kid, he's male, would be thinking about, you know, so many other things than giving me a t-shirt that says guncle on it, and I wear it, you know, when I'm up there, and he loves it and he always has this picture taken next to me.

So, it's just, it's small things like that that you think, oh my gosh, does that really matter? Is that going to matter to anybody? Of course, it is. Of course, it is.

So, sharing those things, I'm a big sharer on social media with stuff, and I try to put a lot of positive quotes and things that are going to inspire people out there and to mobilize everybody.

And I try not to be too like, oh, did you see what he said today? Did you see what's? It's easy to fall trap to that, because, you know, if, if I don't post it, you can't be self-centered.

Like, well, if I don't post it, they're not going to hear about it. Oh yeah, they are. You know, it's everywhere. It's, you know, if you're a news junkie, you'll hear it like 20 times in one day.

Protect Your Peace (30:03)

Rob Loveless

You mentioned that right now, a lot of LGBTQ+ people are checking out because they just feel completely overwhelmed by everything going on, and rightfully so.

So, what advice would you have for those individuals who feel discouraged by this systemic hate and bigotry we've been witnessing, but still want to build stronger relationships with allies?

Greg Baird

What I tell everybody right now, number one is, protect your peace. We all need to do that. That's the key thing going into the next four years, however long it's going to be. Protect your peace.

So, if you're feeling discouraged, do what you can, your part that you feel safe also, in getting allies, being together, we all need to look out for one another.

We all need to be very curious of our surroundings and protective and being there. It's a it's a hard time because I think maybe some allies are feeling that they, should I be an ally right now, because maybe for the safety of my family or my safety, or whatever it be.

Do, what do, what you can that you feel comfortable with, but being an ally is not always comfortable. So you gotta kind of stretch the point, like you and I both know and our community knows that we are faced with things every single day, that long term if you, if you give two damns about the world we live in, you got to go forward, and it's going to be uncomfortable, and you're going to have days that are frustrated and we're going to be discouraged.

So, hate is out there. How you ingest all that and going forward, you can shake your head. You can be mad about it. Can ruin your day. Don't let it do that. Protect your peace.

Do what you can that's going to create and give somebody a moment in their day that's going to be a lot better in going forward. I mean, there's, you know, we have our interest groups, we have schools, we have colleges, we have other things, people at work.

We just need to include a lot of people. Not all the time it's done by a text. Face-to-face interaction, if you can do it, is fantastic. It's more memorable. It's there. And it could be something very small, to a gathering to a very political social movement.

But again, have those allies with you and be safe what you're doing keep you know, everybody needs to look out for one another. Even planning travel for myself this year, I I'm more careful than ever where I'm at and, you know, I have people that love me and just like, are you alright?

You doing okay? Are you going out there? You know, that kind of thing. So just it. Just try not to be discouraged, discouraged by everything in the face of opposition, because it's there. I I personally don't feel that this is going to continue for four years.

This is my, I could be wrong, but I have this gut feeling that all this craziness that we're experiencing right now, I don't see it lasting as long as we think it's going to.

Rob Loveless

I certainly hope so. And it seems like, politically, there's always this pendulum where it's swinging forwards and backwards.

You know, we saw it swing backwards with the Reagan administration, and then start moving forward a little bit with the Clinton administration, backwards with Bush, and then, you know, forward with Obama.

So, I think we're, to your point, I'm hoping that this, is we've kind of reached the peak of that backwards swing, and that soon will be swinging back in the right direction.

Greg Baird

Yeah, absolutely.

A Message to Allies (33:44)

Rob Loveless

We talked a lot today about what allyship is, how we, as LGBTQ+ people, can engage our allies.

But kind of wrapping things up here, if there's one message you'd like allies to take away from this conversation, what would it be?

Greg Baird

Be there for other people. Share your stories, like I said, stories changes policies, laws. Unpack your privilege, whatever it may be, engage in self-reflection. Education is the key.

Education is the key, and be there for one another. Check in with one another is a great message to have in going forward. We're disconnected.

We're so tied up with what app we're losing, we're using our cell phones things like that. Check in with people, see how they're doing.

And, you know, gather your tribe, gather the people around you, and gain those forces and things and reflection, and remember that we don't take breaks.

An ally doesn't take breaks, and an ally should call things out if they don't seem right. But again, going back, you have to be very careful of your safety and your peace as well.

Episode Closing (35:01)

Rob Loveless

And connecting it back to the tarot, The Lovers in reverse, this is signaling that there may be a relationship in our life that's out of balance.

And I think this really connects to what we talked about today. For a lot of straight people, after marriage equality was passed in 2015, they thought everything was equal for LGBTQ+ people.

So yay, let's get drunk at Pride and that's that. And that's not really the case. And I think there's an imbalance there, where, for a long time, allies wanted to have their fun with us at Pride.

And you know, we see corporations like Target, who enjoyed making money off of the LGBTQ+ community through their Pride merchandise, who, when times get tough, they're not showing up.

So needless to say, there's an imbalance there, and while we may want to be angry and scream and shout and just get mad, we can't let our strained communication with those people we have relationships with keep us from pushing forward.

We need to use this as an opportunity to really identify what's causing this disharmony and find ways to educate those people.

It's not always easy work, but if we want to mend those relationships and find that balance again, we need to come to them with our personal stories, let them know how these things affect us, and really push them for their support.

And at the end of the day, they still may not see eye to eye with us, and that's extremely frustrating, but we need to remember to make decisions and align ourselves with our values.

So, if in the scenario of these difficult relationships, you're not able to achieve that balance because the other person or corporation is unwilling to reciprocate, despite the work we're putting in, we may have to make the difficult decision to walk away.

And while that can be scary, it's how we grow. And wouldn't you rather surround yourself with people who are supporting your equality, who want to see you thrive and have equal rights than people who are always going to say, I don't know about that, or when push comes to shove, aren't going to take action? 

So, let's reassess those relationships, address any imbalance, and work to cultivate a thriving community through engaging our allies. 

Connect with Greg (36:45)

Rob Loveless

Greg, thank you so much for coming on today. This was a great conversation.

I know things have felt gloomy lately, but after talking with you today, I am feeling inspired and optimistic. So hopefully there is some, you know, sun on the horizon there.

Before we wrap up here, can you tell listeners where they can learn more and connect with you?

Greg Baird

Sure. So, I'm on, I have a Linktree account, but if you look on Social Web, just type in Gregger Speaks. I'm on SpeakerHUB booking agency.

Let's Engage is another agency of mine, Speakers, Inc. And then I'm on Facebook, no hate. We'll see how that, how long that's gonna last.

I'm in on Instagram, and I have a YouTube channel that I post my blogs three times a week. And I just posted one earlier. And those are, those are fun and informative.

And then I also do the whole TikTok thing as well and Bluesky. So, it's a lot.

I need somebody to help me because it's a lot of stuff to manage all the time. I mean, you should know that with your podcast, everything you do.

But it's, it seems like it's another job, but that's where you can find me. Reach out to me. Anything that you were curious about that I spoke, you know, my website is gregrbaird.com

 You can check out all my stuff there and send me a message. There's some links on some human rights groups and things that are really of support.

I do a lot of work with HRC, the Matthew Shepard Foundation, the Trevor Project. So those are my my go-to people.

So, reach out to me. I like to hear from your listeners what they heard today.

Rob Loveless

Definitely. Be sure, after listening to this, to go check out Greg. I'm sure there's tons of resources there to help with engaging your allies.

Also maybe send every straight person you know this episode after listening. I'm not saying that to bolster my download numbers, but just to get the word out there, because I think it really does raise awareness that there is a lot that we're facing as a community that largely the straight community doesn't realize.

So, I think this could be a way to help start some conversation as well. And Greg had a ton of great insights to share. So be sure to share this episode.

Connect with A Jaded Gay (38:53)

Rob Loveless

As for the podcast, you know the drill.

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Mmm-bye.