117. Get Pop Cultured (with Carmine Davis)

Snarky Opener (0:00)

Carmine Davis

I noticed what was missing was someone like me: queer, darker skinned, or all these things that normally would other but I found to be attractive, or it could be attractive.

I didn't see many of me's out there, and I wanted to create from that place.

Episode Introduction (0:40)

Rob Loveless

Hello, my LGBTQuties, and welcome back to another episode of A Jaded Gay. I'm Rob Loveless and, today, I am a non-jaded gay because I'm very excited to announce, although you've probably seen this on Instagram already if you follow me, but A Jaded Gay has a blog.

So, I said a while back that I've been creating transcripts for older episodes, just because the auto transcripts that are generated by podcast platforms aren't always the best.

And I wanted to organize them a little bit more so there could be chapter markers, a little bit more description about what we're talking about in each section.

So, I've been working through that the past few months. But as part of doing that, I'm obviously re-listening to episodes.

So, I've been re-listening to some of the older episodes, and at this point, it's been over two years since the podcast launched, so I'm remembering things we talked about, and I'm like, oh yeah, that's really important to, like, be mindful of going forward.

So, with that in mind, I decided to start taking the transcripts of older episodes and then converting them into blog posts.

And that way too, I can link all the resources that are referenced in those articles right within the blog post. It gives it a little bit of a creative twist, and it also allows people who don't typically listen to podcasts to still access the same information.

And I like it a lot too, because obviously, I'm a writer, first and foremost. I've been writing books since I was 18 years old, so turning older podcast episodes into blog posts, it just kind of feeds a creative writer need I had within me.

So, I've really been enjoying it. If you haven't already, I definitely recommend checking out the blog post, because again, some of this information that I'm posting are from episodes two plus years ago.

So, it'll be a nice refresher to absorb that information in a different way.

And also, if you have friends out there that don't really listen to podcasts, but you think could benefit from the information we talk about, send them those blog posts.

It's a great way to spread the word, and I'd greatly appreciate it.

Pop Culture (2:26)

Rob Loveless

Anyway, enough about me, because we have a very special guest on today.

There are so many LGBTQ+ creators out there, especially in the entertainment realm, so I'm very excited to have another LGBTQ+ creator on today to talk all things pop music and podcasting.

But before we do that, let's pull our tarot card.

Tarot (2:49)

Rob Loveless

Ooh, we drew a Major Arcana card, and I feel like we haven't pulled one of these in a while. Anyway, we pulled The Magician in reverse.

The Magician immediately follows The Fool in the Major Arcana, but The Fool has a value of zero. So, this card is number one, which in numerology, ties to a new beginning or journey and the individual.

In traditional depictions, we see a magician with three of the elemental symbols in front of him: Swords, Pentacles, and Cups, and he's also holding a wand over his head.

So, this shows that the elemental ingredients we need to be successful are right in front of us, but with the wand in his hand, the energy is very action-oriented, and this card really ties to creativity, passion, manifestation, and inspired action.

There's also an infinity sign above his head, representing that our inner magic is constantly flowing through us.

However, drawing this card in reverse, it's telling us that maybe we're starting to explore those areas we're interested in, but we haven't taken action yet.

And maybe that's because we're doubting ourselves, or if we have started acting toward our goal, maybe we're feeling frustrated because we haven't seen any progress yet.

Regardless of whichever situation may apply to us, this card is a sign of untapped potential. We have so much more to give.

So, if we haven't taken action yet, let's reflect on why we haven't, address our concerns, and strategize for taking that first step forward.

And if we are working toward our goal but not seeing progress, let's look at this from a different perspective and see if there's a different path forward, we should be taking that will still bring us to the same outcome.

Guest Introduction (4:27)

Rob Loveless

So, from magicians to magic voices, I am very excited to bring on today's guest. He is a singer and host of The Carmine Davis Show.

Please welcome Carmine Davis. Hi, Carmine. How are you today?

Carmine Davis

Hey, I'm great. I'm great. How are you?

Rob Loveless

Doing, well, thank you. It's a Friday, so can't complain.

Carmine Davis

Can't complain. Yeah, yeah.

Rob Loveless

Well, I'm very excited that you're joining us today, a fellow podcaster and also a pop musician. So, lots of fun things to talk about there.

So, kicking it off, can tell all the listeners a little bit about yourself, how you identify, your career, you know, what you do for fun, all that fun stuff?

Carmine Davis

I'm Carmine Davis. Um, I am a pop singer, a songwriter, and a podcast host, creative. I am, I identify myself as he and him. But you know that I guess that's a change. I don't know.

You know, I'm learning more and more about myself and all the rules and all those things, and, yeah, I'm just a creative person who makes music and art and media that comes from the heart and that's real and authentic to me, and I like to connect with people who I feel like are similar.

That's why I was excited to be here.

Rob Loveless

And today, are you a jaded or non-jaded gay and why?

Carmine Davis

I am very jaded, very jaded because I'm tired.

You know, like I talked to you about the move, besides all of that, but with everything that's just going on in the world, I mean, like I'm aware, I'm I'm I'm woke so I am jaded to a certain extent, but, um, I'm, you know, happy at the same time, but definitely jaded.

Rob Loveless

Sounds like jaded but hopeful?

Carmine Davis

Yes, yes, that's me. Yes.

Rob Loveless

Well, kicking off the episode, can you tell us about your journey into becoming a pop singer and your pop persona and what inspires you?

Carmine Davis

Yeah, so I've been singing and performing since I was a kid, all of my cousins, all my aunts, that's what we did. We would always either be singing or dancing, coming up with dances and dance routines on our own, or we would be watching someone a great like Michael Jackson, Prince, or watch movies constantly in the front of entertain, like entertaining people or entertain or being entertained and entertaining each other.

So, we were always doing when we got together and when I was alone, I studied, you know, I listened to an extreme amount of music, like, it's almost embarrassing, how much I listen to music?

Like, every year my Spotify Wrapped comes up and says, you listen to 368, days of music, you know, like, there's only three days a year, you know, like, it's like, I listen to music constantly.

And it was like that when I was a kid and developing who I am as an artist, of studying the greats from Prince Michael, Madonna, Mariah Carey to Britney, you know, all those people and that created. I wanted, I saw as I got older, a Janet of course, and I got older and wanted to create.

I noticed what was, what was missing was someone like me: queer, you know, darker skinned, or all these things that normally would other, but I found to be attractive, or it could be attractive.

I didn't see many of me's out there, and I wanted to create from that place and show them that this is possible, or you don't have to be a size, you know, this big or or a lighter complexion or different like deny who you are sexually.

I wanted to create where those things just didn't matter. And it was about the quality of music and the entertainment, and also sharing the things that I've learned and my stories that I feel like me you might have in common, opposed to what the normal pop culture phenomena.

But it is like it is all pop culture, so it's showing how it's relatable to everyone, but we only talk about it or, you know, it's making it less more digestible, just like pop culture is. So that's why I've created Carmine Davis.

Rob Loveless

Can you tell us a little bit about your relationship with pop culture and how it influences your music?

Carmine Davis

Yeah, so pop culture is pretty much a part of of me, like it is, you know, like with everyone else. Like when I'm a kid from Mississippi, so I didn't have much growing up, but I latched on to pop culture, probably a little bit more than I probably should have, because of, you know, there wasn't much going on.

So, to get onto the world around me, instead of getting the rural city of Pearl, you know, and not really connected with that, I watched Paris Hilton, or I watched Ken I watched I listened to music.

I watched interviews, I watched interviewers, I watched documentaries, I read books, and got into the know of what's going on. And then I got into the rags, you know, at the time, the rags, US Weekly, InTouch.

And I think all those things, you know, with the and the Y2K era created me as as an artist and a media person, I guess. And it helped me develop a persona of who I am.

So, I think I clung as a kid and as a toddler a little too much to pop culture, to the point where I almost rejected my reality, and I was always face down in a book, headphones on to some the hottest album, or some old album that I heard about watching some interviews.

So, pop culture is like my DNA. It's almost pretty much who I am.

Rob Loveless

How do you define pop culture in the context of your musical journey?

Carmine Davis

In my musical journey, I would probably say like even now. So, before I talked to you, I'm having kind of a dispute with one of my creator like co-creators, I'm creating album art for a package that I'm working on, like a new single.

And when I'm trying to find inspiration, you know, I always look in the past of pop culture. You know, whether it's news clippings of Prince or news clippings of Madonna Us Weekly of Britney Spears, or reading about them, and reading what was then said about them, and how it correlated to now.

And if I was around in that time, what would have been said about me, or what would have been Carmine Davis's headline? And that kind of is how I turn around and push my whether social media, whether it's my art, I try to pivot it from that point of view if that makes any sense.

So, it's like so for my album artwork, where, where right now, currently, we're going through a I am going through a sexual awakening of like, who I am as an artist. I used to do music as a teenager. I released my first material, like 10 years ago, and I was a kid.

But I want to break out of the mold of what people define as sexual or sexy and all those things and push that forward in the ways that people might have done like Lindsay Lohan did when they came and broke out of their sexual liberation when they weren't wearing any panties out of the limousine and all those things.

And in reality, to me, being such a pop culture like being I realized how that put such a fire in me, and I'm like, yes, Queen like Britney better, you know, grab hold of her sexuality.

Yes, you know, Madonna cones on her bra, titties out, showing them like Lil Kim, like all those people pushing and thrusting their sexual, their sexuality, out to people and allowing people to discuss it, to discuss it, is kind of where I am in my own art and so pop culture and art, pop art, you know, like it's, it's what I do, and that's where I'm, where I'm at.

So that's where I draw all my information from, basically.

Pop Culture’s Queer Appeal (12:55)

Rob Loveless

And talking about the sexual liberation that comes with pop music, I've been transcribing some older podcast episodes, and one that I just did actually this week, from way back when, over two years ago, was about the gay emotional appeal of pop icons and why gay men tend to identify so much with pop icons.

And in there we talked about couple different categories of where pop singers and their songs fall into the gay experience quote unquote.

But in your own words, I was wondering, why do you think pop music seems to resonate so deeply with LGBTQ+ people?

Carmine Davis

Because our stories are similar. I think, I think the stories are are similar. I feel like, with like, I said, back to what I was saying with Britney. She's my my mother like my she's my everything.

So, when I saw her development in becoming sexual and proud and owning her sexuality and choosing to express herself sexually, it's always met with horrible like, if you go back and listen to the interviews, it's almost criminal.

But at the time it was so normal to tell people to tell her that someone said on an interview that they would wish they could shoot her for what she was pushing on her kids, like showing she's supposed to be a role model and her showing her belly and her daughter, that person's daughter, wanting to use her as a hero or exemplify, you know?

It made her want to shoot her. And I think okay, as a queer artist, I feel the same like I could, I can identify with that same thing, me being queer and in here, and you know what I'm saying?

Like choosing to put my sexuality out there makes people upset. It makes people mad that I won't hide or, you know, I will discuss my sex life. I'm not drinking or trying to walk straight or try to be anything that I'm not, and it's normal for me.

Why is, someone's sexuality is a normal thing. This is real life. So why is why am I as an adult being tried and treated horribly, because I choose to express that? And I think that that's something that I identify with Britney with, you know, it's unholy. It's not good.

It's not okay for you to be gay. It's unholy for a woman to show her belly button and to wear crop tops and sexy tops, or all those things. So, I think from a political standpoint, and how to maneuver and to deal with the hateration of everything and come out on top is something that I think I know I do, I can relate to.

And I think a lot of gays when we look at people like Britney or Kylie Minogue or Gaga, they were doing things that were so controversial, but in reality, these are conversations that we all are having, or that resonate with all of us on inside. These women were just bold and brazen enough to do it in the cover of Rolling Stone.

So, I think that's why it resonates with us, especially me.

Rob Loveless

I love all those pop Queens you were talking about, but Britney is probably the earliest pop queen I had growing up. And I know exactly that interview you were talking about.

I think actually was a Republican senator who had said that about I think it was some woman in politics who had said that about Britney, and I'm pretty sure at the time that she said, oh, I just want to shoot her. I think Britney was only like, 19 years old.

And there was actually an interview where Britney was shown that clip of the woman saying that, and she goes, oh, she did? Oh, that's horrible.

And I mean, Britney had this larger-than-life persona, but at the end of the day, 19 is still a child.

And I think there's like you talked about, there's a parallel there with the queer experience, where maybe we're closeted teenagers, closeted children, and we know we're different, and we're hearing all this negative things about queer people that people are saying because they don't realize that we're hearing it.

Like they don't identify us as a queer person, so they're just freely saying it, just like maybe that senator didn't think that Britney Spears would ever hear it or ever even care about it.

But so, we're carrying those things with us, and it can either make or break us, where it either defines us in a negative way, where we're loathing ourselves, repressed, whatever, or we can kind of reclaim that as empowerment and say, you know what?

You can say these things, but at the end of the day, like, here's who I am, and I'm coming into my own still.

Carmine Davis

Yes, and people love it, and people will fuck with it. You know what I'm saying? Like it or not like this is who I am. And as an artist, I choose to bring myself out there and be authentic.

And regardless of who feels it, who don't, who do, who does not, anymore doesn't define me. I have to release this music. I have to share this part of myself, and hopefully, it liberates that that woman's son who might be, you know, closeted or, like you said, relating it.

That's the purpose, exactly what I meant. Thank you for understanding where I'm coming from, but back then, like you know you it's only something that you can understand as a queer artist, but that's why it's so important for me to share my work and share my art and share my work and be authentic as I can.

Not hide anything, not hold anything back, because whether it's upsetting someone who is who thinks that gay people should be quiet and hush, or people my complexion, my size, should cover up, should be less than, I know that there is someone out there who looks like me, who lives like me, who is liberated by this, who can or not even someone who could be the completely opposite of me, and they are seeing me and are liberated.

So that's why I think it's important to share.

Pop Culture & Identity (18:41)

Rob Loveless

Going off of that you kind of touched upon this a little bit already for the question I'm about to ask you.

But can you talk more about what you consider to be pop music, maybe both in terms sonically and the message of it and what it means to you as it relates to your music and identity?

Carmine Davis

Yes. So great question. I think pop music is always changing. I think technically, from a business perspective, my brain is always like, you know, right and left. So, I have, you know, backstory. I have a business degree and, you know, entrepreneurship and all those things.

But I also have a creative degree to clear an instrument voice, and, you know, all those things. So, my brain is always working in two things. So, I'm going to answer from the right side of my brain. So, pop culture, pop music is a post on whatever's going on at the time, right?

So, including hip hop hooks or hip-hop stylings and all those things will pop at the moment R&B sometimes catch caught on and was very pop at the time. So, it's very just pop music is about having the pulse on what's going on right now, right?

But for me as a creative it's my love for music like, I love pop music like, so I don't listen to music as a critical person. I think it's awesome to show us kind of encapsulate what's going on right now with the people, and what people as a majority are feeling, you know?

But as in, like, my left side of my brain, like it's, I want to put my hat in so where you have like, like, catchy hooks, it's always going to be catchy. It's like, who can make the most, the catchiest song as possible, right?

But sometimes it's about feeding so much of information in a short period of time repetitively, like to the point where people can stick with it and they want to keep playing it, or that it's so cool and laid back that you don't even realize that it's you're hearing the same hook over and over again.

And it's about finding being cool enough as a creative or being like in your own to find out where you are in my process. So, for me, you know, sonically, I feel like Gaga, like you take Stupid Love like it's like, constantly, I want your stupid love.

And then you have, what's that guy who just said Million Dollar Baby? That sound sounds really cool, and it sounds laid back, but it is a pop song because it's got that hook going again, but it's casual, it's got the flow with it and still develops that hip-hop coolness.

So as a pop artist, for me, where that comes in is finding out what that is for me and like, where, sonically, rhythmic, wise, how do I get my message out to people to the point where it stays in our head and for how long and what, what rhythm, what? And that's where I'm at in my artistic endeavor.

Pop Culture Icons (21:40)

Rob Loveless

You talked about kind of being raised by pop culture. Have there been any particular pop culture moments or figures that have significantly impacted your music career?

Carmine Davis

So many, so many. From the first person I could think of that really just got me and made me want to do it was Britney and then Madonna, Janet Jackson, Prince, Luther Vandross, just like holding my eyes like Michael Jackson, and people who I was, like, I want to do that, Whitney Houston, like the greats, you know?

And Mariah Carey, of course, like, I'll put her top three of my biggest influences, and but the thing that was granted to them, and I talk about it actually in therapy all the time, and about one thing I learned about them was that they all had such backlash.

You know, they had these they were great musicians, like their art and all that was true. It was their talents were undisputable like they were just talented, but they're what they they also thrusted people further and their thought process the way they lived their lives.

They also were people who had a certain lifestyle that people at first didn't really, really weren't aware of or really didn't know that that was a common way of living, like Whitney in the church and a Black woman in the church and her viewpoints, you know, Michael and Jehovah Witness, like all those things, and the way they thought and their creativeness and their brain and how they lived their lives were up for display and it was controversial, but they still shared it anyway.

So, I would say all those people helped me become who I am.

The Carmine Davis Show (23:27)

Rob Loveless

Tell us about The Carmine Davis Show and how it intersects with your music career.

Carmine Davis

Yeah, so if it is a extension of that. I started the podcast, I probably I still say it's a pandemic project.

I, the podcast is something that I wanted to do. I didn't know. I think that I planned on doing it, I think this is we shut shut down in March, lockdown here in Georgia, like March around the time I think I started my podcast and really had the development process in February, but it really took off around the end of March, and so it was, ideally, I had no idea what was going on.

So, I got the I started doing the podcast during, like, all the gloom and doom. I was getting all the information, this is it. You know, on Facebook, my friends and family, that was like, okay, well, end of the world, you know, sharing.

But again, I'm from Mississippi, so everybody just thought that this was the rap show. This is it. So, I was really doing the podcast, and kind of a way, like I didn't think he would ever take off or anything like that, but it was more of a documenting of what was going on around me.

And then it kind of got with the George Floyd and the Breonna Taylor. And then I was active, going out protesting and during the times of the BLM Movement, and I was just documenting these things. And then I felt I realized that it was a part of my artistic expression.

And then it became something else. I did a show, we had three segments, and it was like, basically hot topics was just one segment, and then we talked about artists and like, kind of like their story, like their history, and why I love them so much.

And we talked about Lil Kim at one point, and that was the first viral show I had, or technically viral show that people picked up on. And then I decided to change the show to just nothing but hot topics.

Now, when I started my podcast back then, and I feel like maybe you can understand, I don't know how old Jaded Gay is, but around the time when I first started doing the pandemic, or 2019, 2020 there were, there were podcasts, it's probably like 100, 200, 300 podcasts or something being created.

And most of the time, especially with like Black creatives or queer creatives, it was mostly sexual like they were up there talking, you know, they would be all and like, what's the freakiest places you ever done it before, or it was, or they were completely instructional, or niche based, like, teaching someone, educating someone.

And so, I wanted to do a hot topics podcast. Now, I, I, I always say, you know, I was, I never had heard a hot topic podcast up until that point. I could be wrong like I could be 110% wrong. But the idea came from that, that people could listen and discuss with me about hot topics in almost conversational format, like a phone conversation.

Like I was like, okay, get in here. Like, let's talk about this. Let's chop this up. Did you hear about what happened with J Lo? Or did you hear girl, this is what they say, and blah, blah, blah? And then I went from there. And then I decided to do three hot topics and have the whole show into hot topics.

But thing was, I just didn't want to blab. I wanted to make the hot topics or the conversation not about pop culture, but about us.

So, you're listening to me talk about Shakira and her viewpoints or these things like that, but really, I turn it around and let it and be more interpersonal or relatable, and about touching my mental health or touching on things that we need to do as a community, and the thought process of these people are not so different from you and I.

And that was kind of the premise of it, sort of like, like a spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down kind of way.

That pop culture was the way that I could use it, just like my music, to push kind of a conversation and about having more of a political, it was pop culture, but it was, it was the Trojan horse was like politics or things that betterment, or what we mean as a people. Sort of just like my my art.

Rob Loveless

And I think, as you talked about, there's just tends to be a natural time between pop culture and pop music in general. So, it was kind of a seamless transition there.

Carmine Davis

And I'd done music before that.

Pop Music Trends (28:13)

Rob Loveless

Well, with that all in mind, what is a guilty pleasure in pop music that you can't resist?

Carmine Davis

Oh, um, I love, I mean, one, I get a lot of inspiration from Disney music. I think people don't really know that. Like, I'm a Disney like I'm a Disney girl, you know.

So, I, I love Disney music, and I love the idea and the concept of it. Like, the other night, I was hanging out with my friends, and late at night, and we were listening to Poor Unfortunate Souls like that was like, and then just the idea, the concept, how they the writers write, the vocal placements, the storytelling, the arc, like all those things, I'm obsessed with, the Disney music.

And I never have heard of Disney song that I thought was corny. I think that they are beautiful tales. I'll cry like in my favorite song is Colors of the Wind. It's like my staple. I want to play Pocahontas one day. I don't know why. Like, in my mind, I am Pocahontas. I love Pocahontas.

I love the stories, and I love their music and how it's arranged, and the vocal cords, like the vocal arrangements and all those, I will always try to pop use any kind of Disney fashion, any kinds of Disney elements in my music is like, it's a little bit like, always there.

And guilty pleasures, probably again, like trying to repeat a message as many times I can. Like to me, sometimes it's like, I always find a hook first. So, like to me, I think, like a perfect example is Tinashe's Nasty.

With my new song. I wrote a song called, I Know What Boys Like which is a classic, like, I covered it, but then I'm working on a flip version of it, where it's I did the cover, but it's really an introduction to my own version of the song.

And I try to, I'll always be a sucker for a good hook, no matter how corny people think it is, or how, like, Nasty. I've been the nasty girl. Like, no matter it could, I could literally hear her sing that on a loop, like, just that part.

And that's something to me that I put in my music, and it's a guilty pleasure of mine, like, I'm a sucker for a hook.

Like a good hook, like sing it to me as much as you can. I will write a hook and put it in my song as much as I can, I will sing on top of it and have it just thought. I just think that it's what pop music is all about.

Rob Loveless

And I think that's a great example, too, because especially with Tinashe, I love her.

I've been listening to her since 2014 but, like, nobody really knows about her, and then Nasty comes out with this really catchy hook. And now it's like, one of the contenders for songs of the summer.

And it's, I'm glad she's finally getting, like, the recognition she deserves. But I'm like, really, like, she has such an amazing discography, and like, this is the one that's getting it.

Carmine Davis

Yeah, she's a huge, she's like, she's a huge inspiration of mine. I like I would, I would almost want my career to be like that, opposed to because there's a there's a.

One, she stayed true to what I'm saying, like pop culture and pop music and and she also stayed true to the grit of work and creativity and making, like, classic songs, like, and so when you do have those moments, right?

Like, I remember when my song, Never Gonna Love Again came out, and it was, I, it was, it's completely surprising that it took, like, even took off the way it did. You know, we did like 5 million streams and almost 10 million streams across, like all platforms, just sitting at home.

You know, I didn't go out or any radio my first couple of singles I did, we did radio play and all those. But like independently, I wrote that song, I raised that song, I produced that song, I came up with it all on my own.

And so, when you have those little moments of blip, like, 10 million to normal people would be like, like, a Tinashe would be like, Okay, another song. But for me, you know, as an independent artist in my own home, that's pretty impressive.

And so, you just continue to work on music like that, and you just never really know when it's gonna take off. You know, you just never know, like, in my mind, but in my mind, I know that I have room to grow, of course, and I know one day my songs will take off.

But if I continue to create and release music that is true and near dear to me, when people go back and and hears that a lot, and they hear Carmine Davis is blah, blah, blah, and it's it takes off.

I want to have people go back and listen to my music and have that discussion, like, how we're having where people like, no, I knew back then, when he had that podcast and, you know, all that song like, he had a discography of stuff that could go back and nibble on and be like, oh, like he was really that girl the whole time.

So, like, I think it's important. That's what I love about Tinashe, and I think that's more important than having as an artist, to me, I think that's more important than having a bunch of hits that just never stick.

Opposed to Tinashe having a growing discography of nothing but beautiful music, like great song, timeless songs. And I'm excited for her. She's one of my inspirations.

Rob Loveless

And it's funny, you bring up that point because I was having this conversation with my friend the other day that in the world of streaming, it seems like it's somewhat easy for these big artists to get a number one.

You know, their new album comes out, it immediately goes to number 1. 13 of the 14 tracks are the top 10 or 13 songs or whatever, because of how streaming works.

But it's like, do those songs have staying power? Congratulations, your album went number one for the week it came out. You have the top five spots on Spotify's charts.

But then where do they fall the week after? And I think when we see these songs that are coming out and then staying like because I remember when I was younger, the songs that were popular, it wasn't just oh, they came out, hit number one, and then that was it.

They stayed around for a while. They were popular songs for a reason.

So, I think we're kind of seeing the resurgence of that with some I know Sabrina Carpenter's Espresso, her song has been in the top five non-stop all summer long.

And that, to me, there's other songs like that too, but that's one that really stands out. And I like seeing those songs with staying power.

And in the case of Tinashe, I'm especially happy because I'm pretty sure she's independent because I think in 2019, she started her own label with her Songs for You album.

And so, it's great to see an indie artist get that. I mean, granted, she did start off like, I think she was signed to label her first couple albums, but seeing her where she's really kind of hustling for herself, doing this for herself, and now having the success.

And I think too correct me if I'm wrong, but I think TikTok can help those things along the way with it takes one TikTok dance or one trend, and you can suddenly have a song that's surging like we're seeing with her.

Carmine Davis

Exactly, exactly. And I think it goes to show not to go on another tangent, but from that time that we're talking about pop culture is now is how we consume material and how we as a like, I said, I always thing I love about pop music is that it's very telling of the times.

That pop culture is very telling at the times. And so, it's about how we, at one point, we were all listening to one song, you know, back then. Like, I think about Mariah again, you know, I'm never gonna not miss an opportunity to bring in Mariah.

But like, you know, the One Sweet Day you know, song, like everybody in the world was listening to that song. We all had, we fussing around our radio, and we heard that song at the top five after five. You know, the big eight after eight. You know, we that song.

Everybody, at one point, we were all being fed pop music like this. These, someone was deciding, these are the hits. You know, Janet Jackson's Nasty these are the songs that are the top songs. You pick which one is the best.

Now, there are so many people like me that are recording, and we can record from our home and/or record from private studios, or all these things and we release hundreds of millions of songs, I feel like, daily.

So how we're consuming material changes like that, you know, and and right now the still, there's that element of the label giving us, you know, everything is kind of not to conspiracize or or anything like that.

But there are like, men in positions to or to choose what as a whole, as pop culture, what we consume. You know, there are people who decide those things for us, what is the hottest song right now and then these are the best songs from Sony.

And we're going to push, push, push, push. You're going to be listening to Nickelback radio and Espresso is going to come on. You know what I mean? Like, it's just what it is. Like nothing has ever changed.

But what I love about Sabrina or even Tinashe is when the song is good, no matter how it's pushed, because there it's just how it is. Like the industry is always going to push their narrative on us. Right? Spotify is it has all these political things to make sure that they get paid.

You know what I'm saying? Like they've got to sell to certain labels. They've got to make partnerships. Our $10.99, a month is just not enough for them. You know?

They're going to go to these big wigs that, and go to these cool destinations and all these things with these people, and they're gonna give them this money to make sure, like this particular song or these this label or these artists are the most streamed, right?

But then when a song, like sometimes a song breaks through, it's like, damn, that's a good ass song. Like Espresso, to me, no matter what anybody says that is pop.

Like, that is, to me, what I wake up for, like, Espresso, like, that's what I listen to music for, Tinashe's Nasty, that's what I listen for.

And every now and then those songs break through, and you know, you're, you're proud of those kind of songs.

Rob Loveless

And I feel like you said how they're pop. It's the full pop package of being iconic because it's a catchy song.

They've got choreo, the music video is serving visuals like very different vibes, but still, they got the visuals. Especially Tinashe always has the choreo.

So, it's not just a here's all the money behind this song to get my number one. It's this is more of like an experience,

Carmine Davis

Yes, yes. You can almost eat it, like Espresso, like it had all the elements of like, yes, yes, yes. And that's where I want to go with my material, you know. And it's inspirational to me. Like, these are the girls that get where I'm coming from, you know what I mean?

Like, we're making songs that, or moments that, you know, again, mine is like, grass grassroot, you know, and all those things. It's very expensive to create music these days, you know. And it really is. But you know, you you create these moments for people to relate to or to want to just bite you.

You know you want that. Like, you know, as a pop artist, you want people to almost feel like they are possessed, in a sense, with these songs.

That's why you I've been a nasty, never gonna love again, like all my like the songs that I put in, you put those songs and hooks, hooks to get in people's brains to make them be like, Damn this.

It takes you to a journey, you know. So that's what you want to work for.

Queer Pop Music (39:34)

Rob Loveless

And this next question is a two-parter. So out of all the pop queens you grew up with that you love, who would you choose to collaborate with, and what would that song be about?

And same question, but for your favorite queer artist?

Carmine Davis

Okay, that's tough. So many. I don't, I think I would say, I would want to say Mariah Carey and I would love for us to kind of work on something closer to the Caution era, which is my like I hold dear to me, like, that's one of my favorite areas of Mariah and like, probably top three.

Caution to me is like I was Mariah Carey and I possess her body. That's the album that I would do, like, Caution or Emancipation. That's the album that I would do if I just had her.

So, I would probably put something close to the Caution. I also feel like that whole era was ahead of his time. I think we're going to be listening to that album in five years of people like she had something here, like a Caution.

I'm going to say Mariah as a pop queen that I would collaborate with, and then queer artists, I would just have to give it to RuPaul. I think that I love RuPaul's story, he's my inspiration. I love I think we have a lot of similarities.

And I think I would love to just, you know, be sassy with him on a song and, like, make something that people actually like, can eat, like I said, like, he makes music that is like, like, just and then also, if I, I would love to, in my near future, work with Cakes Da Killa.

I think he makes amazing ballroom music. I think Cakes Da Killa is, like, Don Dada is my song. Like, yes, those are my two, if I had to pick.

Rob Loveless

Well, it's out there in the universe, so we're manifesting that. I'm looking forward to seeing those songs.

Carmine Davis

Yes, yes, yes. They're gonna happen.

Rob Loveless

Especially the RuPaul, I could definitely see that. I think that'd be a really good, like, fun, sassy, like, you know, strut on the treadmill type of song.

Carmine Davis

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We, and I think we'd do a really good job of just like, making something top 40, but something for the girls, you know, like, I think we do really, really good.

Rob Loveless

I feel like the gays and the girls, like, those are the audiences that, like, have the taste, you know?

Carmine Davis

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, absolutely.

Rob Loveless

Well, I know you've touched upon this in some of your earlier answers, but I wanted to dive a little bit more into this.

Can you talk about your experience as a queer musician in the podcasting and pop culture space?

Carmine Davis

Yeah, I think, unfortunately, still to this day, I've been blessed to have this, the success that I've had. Grassroot again, like this is I'm a bitch that don't even get out of Georgia too much.

Like I used to travel more when I first started, but I I walk my dogs and I work, I just create, and every now and then, go out for a drink, go on vacation, but I like to work in isolation.

So, I've been blessed to have a song that charted on the Spotify charts. I've been blessed to have my podcast chart on the podcast chart for the last three years. Thank God. God has been amazing and and not have to sell my soul, you know, or not, sell to anybody. People have offered to buy the Carmine Davis show.

They want me to come on and do their own versions of it, or that's a blessing.

You know, as someone who started out the creative process thinking that I would never, my show, would never see the light of day, I thought this is gonna be in the world like, that's the blessing, and I hold on true like bad deals that I've been offered, or deals where people were offering me less than what I thought I was worth, and writing material and people sending me, or producers not giving me their best because I'm a queer artist, or they think that my music should go into another direction if I want to go pop or all those things.

So, I would say it's been tough, because sometimes those deals can, I never compromise. I never felt the need to compromise. And I feel like maybe you you can understand a little bit too.

I never felt the need to compromise those things. But sometimes those offers, you know, I mean, I could just all I have to do is sit next to people who I don't like all the time.

I do that anyway, you know, and talk to them about things, and pretend like I'm excited to do this, and just and you, you give me $100,000 a year, 10,000 episodes like, okay, I, you know, maybe I could do it, but they want you to change everything you know.

I don't, one thing I will say about my podcast, even to this day, I don't interview with people that I don't want to talk to. I don't talk to people who I don't want to talk to. That's just not my thing. Like I just, I won't collaborate people who I don't want to. I'm getting better about it.

But if you're not this, if the company is not pro-gay, pro-Black, or woman, if the collaborator makes me, gives me the ick, you know, or if the person who is not, I'm talking to is not elevating the conversation that I stand for, I'm not doing it.

And I think that that's kind of been honestly sad, a sad reality, because you realize how many people want your platform, but they don't want you to. They don't, they want the rhythm and not the blues. So, they want the idea that the show is kind of growing right?

And they want to get a hold of it, or something like that, or your music, okay?

But they want to get you to stop you and change you right now where you are, or they think that they have the best idea of what you're going to be, but it's been hard to just kind of stand firm in my beliefs. Sometimes, sometimes, sometimes, I think that's probably the biggest challenge.

Rob Loveless

And I love what you said about not talking to people you don't want to talk to, because I think it's really important to protect your energy, and especially as a queer person, there's so many people that might be nice to your face but not have your best interests at heart when it comes to voting in November and all of that.

So, it's, it's good to kind of be able to read through that and then protect your energy where you see fit.

Carmine Davis

Right. Right, right, right. And also, people who won't look after your bottom line at the near you know, it's, it's, it's tough, you know, now that I've, I've grown and I'm a little bit more awake, you know, woke, you know, you just have to.

You have to. It's a lot of trust in yourself, you know, and understand that no matter where Carmine Davis is in 10 years, that Carmine Davis is exactly where he wants to be, not where I felt like fears sent me, or I want to be this thing, you know, like, make me this thing.

So, I'm just going to, you know, the thirst is real. So, you know, like, instead of just wanting to be in these rooms with these people, that's never been something that I care about, I'd rather people want me there and come into the room with me and talk to me about and, yeah, talk to me.

Queer Representation in Pop Culture (47:08)

Rob Loveless

How do you feel the representation of LGBTQ+ musicians in pop culture has evolved over the years?

Carmine Davis

Great, but we have a lot of work to do. I think I was watching like I said, all I do is this, like music and all that. And I just obsessed over music and my documentaries since I was a kid like so I just watched, like this mini-documentary about Luther Vandross, and he's a big inspiration of mine.

And you know, a lot of you could argue. People could argue and say that he didn't live his best life because of, you know what, he was closeted and so he was, he did all these amazing things, but never had a lover that he could just come out and announce or could never be.

There's a part of himself that he had to hide. So, when you hide, a part of yourself is your artistic, creative? Like, I feel like Luther probably would have been way bigger than what he was.

You know, even Luther Vandross, he's huge, like, he's amazing, but living in like, where his who he was as an artist probably would have been more. I want to use my word carefully, like, bigger.

I keep thinking about this bigger than when he was if he was able to live in this truth. Now, times have changed where there are people like me who can who can sing, who can write, and can also write songs about their boyfriend, or tell them how they you know their boyfriend.

But we have more ways to go because there are a lot of people who are still uncomfortable with it in a weird way, or want you to turn it down, or want you to kind of in some way. I don't even know what they want you to do.

You know, it's like they, I don't know they. So, I think we have a long way to go. We need to figure out what you want from us. You know, like, I think we just have a long way to go as queer artists. I think that there's a ceiling there that we need to just break through and we will.

Rob Loveless

Who are some queer pop icons that you think are on the rise, that listeners should be on the lookout for?

Carmine Davis

Yeah, um, well, Victoria Monet, you know, I think, you know she's she identifies, which is amazing.

She identifies as I think she identifies as bi, I think Victoria Monet is awesome. And I think she's like, she's next.

I think, um, Cakes Da Killa. Um, so many, so many. But my money is on Cakes Da Killa. I love him.

Pop Culture & Politics (49:51)

Rob Loveless

Kind of shifting gears a little bit.

We're living in a time where pop culture and politics really kind of spill into each other, and we've definitely seen pop music in the past that does have political messages behind it.

So how do you balance the two in your music and in your podcast show?

Carmine Davis

So, it's important for me, for people, okay, I also do a little chef in a cook. So, like another, that's another creative element that I do. And so, people eat with their eyes first.

And I think it's sort of the same thing with music and podcasting. And I love gloss. I love pop. I love the idea that it has to be glossy and poppy and easy to digest, that they don't realize that they took the vitamin, the medicine, the vitamin.

So, I think it's important to package it up really well and to make it almost like people don't even realize what you said until you said it, you know. And then when they get home and they're like, wow, you know, I think that that's important. I think when I look at pop artists before they were doing that, whether we they acknowledged it or not, or whether it was intentional or not.

Making me think Madonna was the perfect example of that. You know, the controversial things that she could do with the sex book or all these things, but the conversation was about why is sex such a taboo thing? And until you free your own sexuality, you'll never be able to be at one of mine.

So here I am naked, here's my coochie, here's my tits. Like, these are all my things. Now look at yours and embrace yours. And I feel like that with pop culture, pop music, like, here's my skin, you know, here I am. I am gay. I'm all these things, my size. This is all I'm going to embrace it.

It's going to, sadly still, to this day, I think who I am probably still grates people, which is crazy, because there's so many like that's weird to even just kind of for me, I think, I'm learning that because I've been me for all my life.

But like, just me being here talking to you is grating us talking, and having platforms is grating to people and us.

And so, it's sort of like until they can get my message and what I want to do is until you learn to embrace that little bit of you that might be queer, you know, that little bit of you that loves a little melanin, you know, that little bit of you who wants to, you know all these things that you will never be able to embrace me.

And so, it starts with getting into that person first, and talking to them in ways that they can digest it, and then making them think about it. Like, what about me is making this hard to accept? If that makes any sense.

Pop Culture’s Impact on the LGBTQ+ Community (52:54)

Rob Loveless

It does. And kind of going off of that, what trends do you foresee in the future of pop music?

Carmine Davis

I don't know. I think with pop music; I think vocals are coming back. Like the girls that can sing, I think I see a like that, that one I do I love a, don't get me wrong. Like I love a.

What would you call it? A breathy singer, like I love it, like, I embrace it, like, but I think the girls who can can really sing like when I recorded, Not Gonna Love Again, Never Gonna Love Again.

I'm sorry, and I wanted to get back to the part where karaoke songs that were digestible and that people again like easily, let people think that it's easy, but when you go up there and sing it, it's complicated to kind of sing.

But I think that that's coming back. I think the girls that can sing are coming back with pop culture. I think you have to dance, you're gonna have to dance, you're gonna have to sing, and you're gonna have to look good doing it. I think those elements are coming back.

Rob Loveless

In what ways do you think pop culture and pop music can be a force for positive change for the LGBTQ+ community?

Carmine Davis

I think it always has been. You know, from the days when I look like Patti LaBelle is another one of my huge inspirations, and back when they were Dolly Parton and they were very vocal about the AIDS epidemic and how that like and that pushed the narrative of like, making shows like The Golden Girls or Family Matters address those issues that were going in pop culture and why we treated people so horribly right for dealing with something that was happening.

Like this was happening to them, not because of them, and it changed the way people viewed it. They're they're stigmas and all that towards it, but it changed the way people looked at it and related to it. And I think to now where that we need to just drive that point home.

You know, of queer spaces. Luckily now, people like RuPaul and all that, you have drag queens, all those things in your room at any time, like, you know what I'm saying?

Like, so it helps now with political like, where we're at a political standstill for women's rights, LGBTQ rights, I think they're going to remember Carmine Davis when it comes to voting and being like, oh, that, that that boy makes brings a light to my life, like, I want to see him do well. I believe that.

I think they're going to look at Rob and be like, oh, he's so smart, and he's, you know, all these things, and he he's as inspiration to me. He made me want to create a podcast.

And so, when it comes to defending him, everybody's not going to be there, and everybody's not going to do that.

But because of pop culture, because the platforms that that we have like now, we're able to tell our stories, we're able to talk, we're able to spill tea, we're able to have these exchanges just like everyone else.

I think it's going to push us to the point where people are I believe it. I don't think it's not going to happen. I think that we are going to be better for it.

Episode Closing (56:19)

Rob Loveless

And connecting it back to the tarot, The Magician in reverse, we have so much potential to unleash. Remember that infinity sign.

Our magic is always flowing, and all the elemental ingredients we need are right at our fingertips.

But for some of us, we may be nervous to take that first step, or, on the other hand, we might be already taking action to try to achieve our goals, but not seeing the progress we want.

And even though we may have best-laid plans of how we want things to work out, obviously we can't control everything, and sometimes we take different turns on our path forward, and we find a new avenue to put ourselves into.

Just like Carmine talked about, music has always been his passion, and then during the pandemic, as kind of a pandemic project, he started The Carmine Davis Show.

And again, pop music and pop culture parallel each other, but also through doing the podcast, he potentially opened himself up to a whole new audience who can then also discover his music.

So, for those of us who want to take action but are afraid, just look within and know that you have the power and the magic to make whatever you want happen.

So, confront any of those insecurities within, really understand why you're afraid, and start taking some time to strategically plan how you can take steps forward to work towards those passions of yours.

And for those of us who have been working towards a goal and we're not seeing the results we want yet, like I said at the top of the episode, maybe see if there's a different path forward.

Maybe there's another action we can take that still supports our goal but takes us a different way to achieve that.

But no matter what, stay positive and keep persevering, because this card is telling us that we have the magic we need to be successful.

Connect with Carmine (57:50)

Rob Loveless

Well, Carmine, thank you so much for coming on today. This was a really great episode and so much fun to, I love talking about Tinashe.

Like not that many people know about her, so it's always great when I can find someone to talk to Tinashe about.

But as we're kind of wrapping things up, here I was, I know you mentioned you're single, that you're working on, can you tell us what we can expect from Carmine Davis in the future?

Carmine Davis

Yes, so I released a cover of, I Know What Boys Like, and originally recorded by The Waitresses, which I was so happy that they gave me the permission to record it.

I was so thankful for that and reimagining it, and it's one of my favorite songs, and I'm thankful that a queer artist got to do it because it's been done, even a rock group has done it, but it's never been done by a queer artist, and it's amazing.

But I it's a preface for a song that I'm working on that is we sample my version of it, and it's kind of like a part two of it that's coming out soon, like, really, really soon.

And after that, I'm releasing song after song after song.

So, I have a bunch of things like irons in the fire. It's mostly about the music right now to me, like, that's where my my heart is, is my first love, and I'm excited for people to hear it.

Rob Loveless

And where can listeners learn more and connect with you for all things, with your pop music, the podcast, all the things?

Carmine Davis

So, you can check me out at carminedavis.com.

Instagram.com/carminedavis. Instagram.com/carminedavis show. Twitter.com/carminedavis. TikTok.com/carminedavis.

All the Carmine Davis. Carmine @carminedavis everywhere.

Rob Loveless

Definitely check out Carmine's music and podcast. You're gonna love it.

Connect with A Jaded Gay (59:31)

Rob Loveless

And you know the drill for us. If you have any questions or feedback, feel free to send them my way rob@ajadedgay.com.

Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe to the podcast. Greatly appreciate it.

For more information on Carmine, episode resources, blog posts, links to merchandise and social, all that fun stuff, you can check out the website ajadedgay.com.

You can follow the podcast on Instagram, TikTok, SoundCloud, and YouTube @ajadedgaypod. You can follow me personally, Rob Loveless, on Instagram @rob_loveless.

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If you sign up at the $3 or $5 tier, you also get a t-shirt and a shout-out from yours truly. So, what's not to love? Or if you're scared of commitment, don't worry. I get it.

You can make a one-time donation on Buy Me a Coffee, and both of those are @ajadedgayod.

And remember: every day is all we have, so you got to make your own happiness.

Mmm-bye.