115. Spectrums of Pride (with Max Korten)

Snarky Opener (0:00)

Max Korten

There are no rules to dating. And when you tell an autistic person that, autistic individuals really like rules and they love structure.

That is like telling an autistic individual to go on a wild goose chase.

Episode Introduction (0:34)

Rob Loveless

Hello, my LGBTQuties, and welcome back to another episode of A Jaded Gay I'm Rob Loveless and, today, I am a jaded gay because I am having dishwasher issues.

So, since I moved into this house, which was just about a year ago, I've had issues with my dishwasher, which is really annoying because it it's pretty new and it looks like it's in good shape, but just since the get-go, the cycles were always weird on it, whatever.

Well, the past four months or so, it wouldn't start when I would start it. Like it would count down, 4-3-2-1, and then just not run. And I figured out that if I put on a sneaker, it doesn't work when I'm barefoot.

If I put on a sneaker and kicked it, it would actually connect, and then it would run fine. So not the best, but I mean an easy enough fix for the moment.

Well, here I am back from vacation running the dishwasher for the first time, and I did it.

And it's running, but it's making really not great noises, so I'm hoping it's just being a little fussy today because I cannot afford to buy a new dishwasher or fix it for that matter.

I am so broke between house projects, vacation, just bills, now adding tuition to it with grad school. It's it's a lot. So, I'm a little jaded today because of that.

So, hey, just a reminder. Subscribe to my Patreon. I could use the money.

Neurodiversity in the LGBTQ+ Community (1:56)

Rob Loveless

But in all seriousness, moving on from my dishwasher struggles, I am very excited for today's guest. He is actually somebody who I met through the Stonewall running group I do here in Philly.

He's a fellow runner, and he reached out to me because he was interested in talking more about his experiences as an LGBTQ+ person with autism.

So, I think it's a really important episode to cover, and he'll be on shortly. But before we get into the episode, let's pull our tarot card.

Tarot (2:26)

Rob Loveless

So, the card for this episode is the Ten of Swords. As you may remember, Swords is tied to the element of air and its masculine energy, meaning it's very action-oriented.

And Swords is tied to communication, both verbal and written. So, you can think of phrases like the Sword of Truth and the pen is mightier than the sword.

And in numerology, ten represents the completion of a cycle. So, whatever's been going on in our lives, we're at the end of that now. But with double digits, as you remember, you add it together.

So, one plus zero equals one, which represents the individual or the start of something new.

Because if you think about it, the completion of a cycle doesn't represent the ultimate end but signals a beginning of a new cycle. You know, when one door closes, another opens.

So, when we draw the Ten of Swords, it's signifying the end of a cycle of pain.

We're accepting this ending and allowing ourselves to see everything we've experienced and acknowledging that it happened for a reason and provided us with the knowledge we needed.

It's ultimately a sense of surrender to those things we can't control, so we can feel peace and gratitude for everything we've experienced, even the bad.

Because with that, it's created space for a new cycle to begin, and hopefully, one that brings a better outcome.

Guest Introduction (3:39)

Rob Loveless

So, with that in mind, let's bring on our guest. He is a runner and researcher, and here to talk about his experiences as a gay man with autism.

I'm very excited to welcome my friend, Max Korten. Hey Max. How are you today?

Max Korten

Hi, Rob. I'm doing well on this lovely, hot Sunday.

Rob Loveless

I know it's been a heat wave lately, so hopefully, you know. I'm hoping for a little bit cooler weather. I don't mind the heat. It's the humidity that kills me.

Max Korten

Yeah, yeah.

Rob Loveless

Well, thank you for coming on today to talk about a very important topic. Very excited to have you share your insights.

But before we get into the episode itself, can you tell us a little bit more about yourself, how you identify, you know, career, pronouns, all that fun stuff?

Max Korten

Yeah, so my name is Max. I use he/him/his pronouns. I'm a cis, white, gay male, and I also identify as having PDD NOS, which is on the autism spectrum.

PDD NOS is basically a subtype on the autism spectrum, and it is a, it's a quote-unquote milder form of autism. So, what that means is that I have, like, lower support needs.

I can basically take care of myself, be able to function independently, but most of the support needs I need are pertaining to like executive processing, or anything pertaining to like executive processing or like overstimulation, which is pretty common in the autism community.

Rob Loveless

Thank you for sharing that, and we're going to talk all about that before we do. Can you tell us today, are you a jaded or non-jaded gay, and why?

Max Korten

I would say that in relation to having autism, I am a jaded gay because with autism.

So I don't know how much you know about autism, but there's a lot of like, when you have a developmental disability, like autism, it's kind of like when everyone who is neurotypical is given like a handbook, and they know the handbook, but when you're autistic or neurodivergent, rather, you're not given the handbook, and you're trying to figure out all the hidden rules and agendas on your own.

And the thing is, like, gay dating is very, at least gay male dating is very different than straight male dating.

It's just, you know, it is challenging because there are a lot of rules that, like, I have to, kind of, like, learn on my own. And I feel like with dating there, you know, I'm in therapy, and I also have, like, a life coach.

One of the things I hate when people say is, you know, there are no rules to dating, and when you tell an autistic person that, autistic individuals really like rules and they love structure, that is like telling an autistic individual to go on a wild goose chase.

Or it's like telling a kid that they can have as much candy as they want at a candy store. So, when I started dating, I really just, you know, didn't know what I was doing with regards to dating.

I didn't really know what I was doing with, like flirting, or like how to talk to guys.

I have gotten a little bit better, but I feel like some of the time I just don't really know what I'm doing, and it is really challenging because I don't really know a lot of other neurodivergent queer individuals besides myself.

So, I feel like I'm on this own island by myself.

Rob Loveless

Well, let's take it from the beginning. So, you've shared a lot about, you know, your autism, some things you've experienced within the gay world, within dating, and I appreciate you sharing those insights.

So, can you tell us a little bit more about your personal journey with both your autism and sexuality?

Maybe about you know when you first realized you had autism, and how that understanding evolved over time?

Max Korten

Yeah, so I was diagnosed with autism when I was actually a baby. I was two. So, I have an older sister, and my mom noticed that I wasn't making as much progress in development as my older sister had.

Autism in the 90s was very new. People didn't really know what it was, but it was like appearing very fast. But I was very privileged in being able to get, like, different types of therapy.

So, like occupational therapy, speech therapy. I was in the, you know, special education system most of my K-12 education trajectory.

So, I was very fortunate, and I, I went to, I'm from New York originally, and the school district that I went to in New York was like one of the best in the state. So, I got a really, really good education.

So, I was very privileged to get, you know, the resources and and help that I needed growing up as, you know, a kid and a teenager with autism.

I think you know, growing up with autism, especially when I reached adolescence, I felt kind of like a bit abashed compared to my peers, because I wanted to, you know, be like everyone else.

I grew up in a very, like, so I grew up in a very upper middle-class area. So, a lot of people from my high school, you know, they were PSAT scholars, they made, like, all state, all county, in music, sports, etc.

I mean, I did well for myself in high school. Like, I definitely got some award accolades, but I felt just like, you know, I felt like a bit of an outsider compared to my peers. So that was difficult as a teenager.

Rob Loveless

Can you tell us too, a little bit about when you started questioning your sexuality?

Max Korten

So, I definitely think that I was starting to question my sexuality when I was, like, in high school. So that's when I, you know, was starting to wonder about it.

I I was, I was kind of nervous to come out in high school because I was trying to get recruited to run in college.

And I thought that, like, if I was out, and this was like, 2010, 11, like, I thought that if I was out in high school, like, ruin my chances of being able to run in college, because I was like, you know, getting recruited by division two and division three schools.

So, I kind of, like, really pushed it down into my unconscious, and then I don't know when I, like, got to, so I went to Moravian. It's a small private liberal arts school, in the Lehigh Valley.

When I got to Moravian, I just, like, I think, just like, with some, you know, more personal space and like, some self-reflection, that's when I realized that, okay, I definitely am, you know, gay. I identify as queer.

So that's when I realized it. When I told my family, they weren't really too surprised, because, you know, I remember telling my dad over the phone, and I was actually, like, really upset.

And he was like, well, I'm not really too surprised, because you never really talked about girls, your mannerisms, etc. So, no one in my family was, you know, too surprised.

And like I said, like, I grew up in New York, right outside New York City, so it's fairly progressive with, you know, LGBT rights. And I actually went to a gay wedding when I was 14.

The Intersection of Queer Identity & Neurodiversity (12:09)

Rob Loveless

Well, with that in mind, and I know you touched upon this a little bit already, but how do your experiences of having autism and being gay intersect and influence each other?

Max Korten

So, I think, like I said previously, there's a lot of, like, hidden, like, agendas and rules with, you know, being gay and certainly gay dating that I just don't like. I've had to, like, learn on my own.

They didn't really come natural to me. So that is really hard. I think whenever I tell perspective dates that I'm autistic, there's a lot of like surprise, because people, well gay men, they have this like vision in their head about, like, what someone with autism looks like.

And that can be, you know, their, their, their first response is like, oh, I'm really surprised that you have autism. I would have never guessed.

And I feel like, sometimes, like, not all the time, I feel like, whenever I tell you know, guys I'm dating, or, like other other acquaintances, that I'm autistic, there's, like, some, you know, infiltrating.

Like, they almost try to treat me like I'm a bit of a little kid because I think they don't want to, like, you know, ruffle any feathers.

So that can be, like, you know, a little bit difficult to navigate, but usually, like, sometimes, like, I just, like, ask, like, my friends for advice.

I'm also, you know, I have a life coach, and he, like, gives me some like, you know, ideas, and gives me some ideas and like, recommendations of how to date.

But, you know, as a so, like, I'm a researcher by trade. That's like, what I do for my day job. And I'm like, I wish there were kind of like, some best practices on how to date.

But dating is so like, it's so um black, and it's such a fluid system. And when you're like neurodivergent, you tend to think in very like black and white terms.

So, it can just be, it can just be a very like, challenging process. Yeah, I'm kind of like all for the place with my answer, but that's just like how I view it from my lens.

Rob Loveless

Thank you for sharing. And I can only imagine, because we've talked about in past episodes that sometimes for some gay men, there might be some emotional baggage there from growing up gay in a straight man's world.

So being on dating apps and stuff, it would be nice to think that dating's so straightforward. Like I go on a date with this person, we seem to have a good time. That means we like each other.

But people can be on dating apps for all different reasons sometimes. You know, sometimes just for attention, sometimes they want a relationship, but then they start getting afraid of that because of past emotional baggage, and they may be emotionally unavailable.

So, when you add that, plus you'd like a more black-and-white approach to it, it can cause a lot of confusion, understandably.

Max Korten

Yeah, very much so. When I was in my early 20s, and this is kind of like cringy to think about, but again, I was in my early 20s, I had, like, a very stringent way for how I approach dating.

I was like, oh, I'm gonna date someone for three to four years, and, like, I'll meet their parents at this time, like, within one year of dating, and then we'll get married.

Like, I had this very stringent way of, like, wanting to date, and it was causing, like, some tension with myself, and it was causing some tension with people that I wanted to date.

So, when I was actually 26 or 27, I decided to get an autistic life coach. His name was Francesco, and he was, he was great.

He was this Italian, this very Italian, macho guy with this, like full, this big black beard.

And we just, like, went over, like dating, like my career, what I wanted out of life, and he, I remember him asking me, like, why, like, I wanted to date.

And I remember like, saying, like, within the first session, like, isn't the point of dating is to get married?

And he said, like, well, don't you want to just, like, date, to just get out of the house and to meet someone?

And I kind of looked at him haphazardly, and I'm like, people do that? And he's like, yeah, people do that all the time.

Rob Loveless

That's a great point too, because I think a lot of people have a, you know, misconception that like you're dating to marry.

You don't need to marry every person you date, but depending on what you grow up seeing or believing, sometimes, you know, and for myself personally, when I came out, I had repressed myself for so long.

So, I thought, Great, now that I'm out, I could date somebody and get married, but it's, it's not that clear cut.

Max Korten

Yeah, and when I started meeting with Francesco, I was just really like, I was really unfond of myself.

When I was looking to, the thing is that when I was looking to date, I was kind of looking for someone to kind of like save me, in a way, because, again, that's portrayed in books, in TV, and that's just like how I learned it.

And I remember I had an English teacher in high school that said, I remember I had a student once that was doing really poorly, and then she started dating her boyfriend, then her grades went up.

So that was just kind of like my perception of like, oh, if I need someone, I'll feel better about myself. And then he asked me, like, within the first few sessions, he's like, Max, do you like yourself?

And I was like, and I said so quickly, and I was like, Uh oh, fuck no.

And I covered my mouth. He was like, and he's just like, well, like, we really have to work on that, because if you're not fond of yourself, he's like, you don't have to 100% like yourself.

Like I, there are qualities of myself that I don't like, but you have to at least be fond of yourself. So that was, like, definitely a big takeaway.

And I also remember, during the pandemic, I remember I thought that I had gotten COVID, so I was trying to, like, like, trying to, like, prepare to quarantine in case if I tested positive.

And I remember meeting with Francesco over the phone. I said, gosh, I wish I just had a boyfriend so they could, like, get me the things in case if I tested positive.

And he was like, well, what if your boyfriend, or potential boyfriend, also got COVID? What if he was away for the weekend?

Like, you never really know what the when these types of things are gonna happen. He said, like, it's always nice to have like someone to like lean on, but to not overly be dependent on them.

Rob Loveless

Going off of that, can you tell us a little bit about how you navigate stereotypes and misconceptions associated with both your identities?

Max Korten

Well, I think again, with having autism, people, you know, people sometimes, when they find out that I have autism, not always, but sometimes there's this, there's this level of, there's this like level of almost treating me like, as if, like I'm a child, or that I'm not capable of doing things on my own, and that can be, like, really frustrating.

And then I have to almost, like, prove to them that I can, like, no, I do have a full-time job. I can, you know, consent. You know, I take care of myself. So that can be challenging at times.

I don't really like the show Love on the Spectrum that much, because there is this concept of, like, treating the contestants like, almost as if they are like little kids.

They mention their special interests, and then they play, like, kindergarten music, and it's just kind of like cringy to watch, and even if they have, like, low or high support needs.

But I think it's not for everyone, but I do notice it with, like, some folks.

Rob Loveless

I was wondering, what advice would you give to other LGBTQ+ individuals with autism who are navigating dating and relationships?

Max Korten

Definitely get a therapist, get a life coach. I'm being serious. It is like, Oh, God, it's rough out there.

Yeah, like, I definitely think, like, having Francesco as my first autistic life coach was really helpful. Because at first, I like, God, I had so much baggage when I was, when I first met with him.

I mean, I still kind of do, but like, a lot of that baggage got, like, removed, and I have a different life coach that has helped me with certain things.

I think, like, you know, definitely getting a therapist, getting like, some type of life coach, has been helpful.

And definitely, like, advocating for yourself. It's easier said than done, like, sometimes I have trouble advocating for myself and like articulating to others about, you know, not having others infantilize you.

You know, just trying to, you know, see them as like what you're capable of, what your low support and high support needs are, so you're getting, you know, the appropriate type of assistance and care.

But I would say it is, you know, it is really challenging with dating, because, like, I'm 30 years old, and I really, I actually have never been in a long-term relationship.

So being neurodivergent and queer as an adult is very challenging because you're trying to like navigate the adult world, as contrasted to like the school environment.

And it is very challenging because a lot of gay men, they have somewhat of an idea of what autism is, but they don't, so that can be challenging of itself, and also trying to, like, navigate the stereotypes.

So, I think just like you know, relying on a therapist, a life coach, and definitely like family and friends around you.

Rob Loveless

And you've mentioned your current life coach, Francesco, before, your therapist. How did you find those resources that was somebody that had experience with working with men with autism?

Or, in the case of Francesco, somebody who had autism themselves and could relate to experiences you were talking about?

Max Korten

So, I found Francesco, I think, just through a Google search, because I didn't, I had an old therapist that I just didn't like, and I was looking for someone that I didn't want, a therapist I wanted someone that was going to like give me more motivation.

And I had a friend that had mentioned the concept of life coaching.

So, I had found Francesco through a Google search, and I I was a little hesitant to like work with him because it was just it was kind of expensive, but I said, I really think this is something that I should take advantage of, and a few of my close friends that I made in Philly noticed like a pretty radical change once I started working with Francesco.

And then my current life coach, his name is Alex, I actually found him on TikTok. He actually mostly works with gay men.

He doesn't have a lot of knowledge of autism, but has like a basic understanding, but I've also have educated him on it. Francesco actually was not gay.

He was a straight married man, but had like the knowledge of like autism and working with autistic individuals, and he had worked with other gay men and lesbians previously.

Representation of LGBTQ+ People with Autism (24:55)

Rob Loveless

Shifting gears a little bit, in past episodes we've talked about the importance of LGBTQ+ visibility in the media, having accurate representation.

And through previous conversations, whether it's been race or body type, we found that even though there's more representation on TV, a lot of it still goes back to kind of the 90s archetype of the white, ripped straight acting gay man, and that's not really representative of the entire community.

So, I know you talked about Love on the Spectrum briefly, and you said that's not your favorite form of representation.

But can you tell us why representation of LGBTQ+ individuals with autism is so important?

Max Korten

Yeah, because the thing is that at least in like the autism community, it's really like, it's just really poorly portrayed.

I think Love on the Spectrum has done like, a little bit better, because again, they have like, different autistic individuals from different backgrounds, whereas in like, nonfiction and fiction shows they have this like stereotypical autistic person, whereas, like Love on the Spectrum, they do have, like, individuals with high and low support needs.

So, I think they've done a little bit better with that. But you know, with TV, it's difficult, because, like TV, they're all about making money.

Sadly, it's like whether I listened to an episode, a podcast about The Bachelor and The Bachelorette, and they didn't really have diversity on The Bachelor and The Bachelorette for a while because they didn't really want that, because they wanted to make money.

And I think that if I were hypothetically to go on Love on the Spectrum, I think it would be a little bit challenging if, it could either go one or two ways.

It could go really well, because I'm, like, kind of the outlier, because I'm, you know, I have a job. I take care of myself. I'm pretty, like, active with dating and, you know, putting myself out there.

But on the other hand, I think, like shows like Netflix, Hulu, they want, you know, they're very concerned about just making money.

So, I think it could either go like, it could either go really well, because it's like, oh, like this person, he's a bit of an outlier, but he's, like, portraying himself.

He's representing the autism spectrum in a different quality. So, I think, you know, like Netflix, Hulu, or even like Apple TV could, like, do a little bit better with, like, representation of people with disabilities, and not putting them into one category.

Rob Loveless

Going off of that, have there been any LGBTQ+ characters in the media with autism or who are neurodivergent that stand out to you?

Max Korten

Um, so I've seen a few on the on Love on the Spectrum, but they're not in the United States. They're in like the UK; I think in Australia.

I don't remember their names, but I have seen them like on TV in the United States.

And I don't know if this is 100% correct, because I don't watch the show religiously because of like the in infantilization, but there aren't any queer neurodivergent folks in the US version.

I think all of them are straight, but I know in the UK and Australian version they are, there are some queer folks.

I think some of them were female, but again, I really hope that the United States does, you know, bring some like, you know, queer folks who are neurodivergent, just to get, like, some better representation.

So again, we're not just getting like straight folks and not getting people with. You know, with Love on the Spectrum, most people who are on the show did not have a job, they did not live independently, which is totally fine, but it would be nice to have like folks like me, who are like, more independent, have a have a job, and being able to take care of themselves.

But I think the problem, like I said previously, is that Netflix, Hulu, they're all about making money.

They don't really like to, you know, they don't really like to ruffle feathers that much. So that's really something that they have to figure out.

Rob Loveless

And maybe from a sitcom standpoint, not necessarily a reality show, but from a sitcom standpoint, what would be a plot or storyline you would like to see for an LGBTQ+ person with autism or who is neurodivergent?

Max Korten

Well, I just started watching the show New Girl. And I like, you know, I watched like, the first two episodes, and I like very much resonate with the protagonist, Jess, who's played by Zooey Deschanel, and I'm like, oh, that would be, like, if there could be, like, a sitcom like that, that would be, that would be great. So, like, kind of, like an integration of, like New Girl that is portrayed with someone who's neurodivergent and queer. I feel like that would be, like a good portrayal.

Resources for LGBTQ+ Individuals with Autism (30:21)

Rob Loveless

I know you talked about a few things in terms of life coaches and therapy and then even neurodivergent LGBTQ+ representation on TV.

So, are there any specific resources or organizations or representation that have been particularly beneficial for you?

Max Korten

Yeah, so I'm in a few Meetup groups for people who have who for adults who have autism, and that's been nice, because I can just, like, communicate with other autistic folks and like, what their lived experiences are.

I also most of it has been pretty much online, but I, you know, because I'm on TikTok, I follow a lot of like, neurodivergent content creators, and I actually learned a lot about my autism through TikTok.

Like I I knew like the gist of my autism, but I think like learning about like, my autism through other content creators and being like, oh, yeah, that's, that's definitely me.

And also, I have a lot of like, I'm also on LinkedIn, and I follow a lot of like, neurodivergent professionals, and they're like, lived experiences of how to, like, navigate work with a developmental disability.

In terms of like organizations that I follow. I mean, there's one organization I do not recommend. It's called Autism Speaks. It's a really terrible organization; it's a terrible charity.

They, they every person who has autism hates Autism Speaks. Like they, no one on the board is autistic. They do a really terrible job of, like, promoting autism resources, and every person is just like, very against it.

So, I do not recommend Autism Speaks. I think there is an organization about autism and research, that's pretty good, so I would have to like do some more investigation into that, but I would definitely not recommend Autism Speaks.

Rob Loveless

Going off of the influencers on TikTok, as well as some of the LGBTQ+ professionals on LinkedIn, can you tell us some of those individuals that you recommend or some of your favorites?

Max Korten

Yeah, so I recommend Morgan Foley. She's autistic and ADHD content creator. I think she lives in Massachusetts or Rhode Island, and she that's her full-time job.

She's a content creator, and she talks a lot about, like, high support needs and low support needs, navigating burnout. She's great, and I've definitely learned a lot about her.

Charles Boomer, I think that's his last name. Charles Bloom, Charles Bloomer. He's also autistic and gay, and he talks a lot about being autistic and queer and his lived experiences, and I can relate to that.

So those are probably like a few of my favorites. And then there's just like other small content creators who are neurodivergent. Most of them are actually British, which is kind of interesting.

But there was one content creator where she was talking about, like she's talking about dialog as an autistic person. She said, for neurotypical people, they like to have conversations like a tennis match.

And when neurodivergent people talk, they kind of like talk like they're playing a game of hot potato. And I was like, That's me.

That's me because, like, when I want to talk, or I'm actually the worst when I'm in conversation, because, like, I tend to, like, when it's when I have the hot potato, I either talk too much or I cut people off.

I'm like, the worst with cutting people off in conversation. I have no idea when, like, I feel like I cause like, accidents, like, quote unquote accidents when I'm talking, because I'm always, like, interrupting people.

Or if there's like, a special interest of mine, I'll talk about it for 30 minutes, and I can tell people are like, this is a lot. So yeah.

Fostering a More Inclusive Community (34:37)

Rob Loveless

And then, how do you see the future for LGBTQ+ individuals with autism evolving?

Max Korten

Well, autism is becoming, there's more resources for people getting diagnosed with autism.

You know, 30, 40, years ago, people who were only getting diagnosed were white males and white males with money. So, I, um, you know, there's more resources with people to getting diagnosed with autism.

Actually, during the pandemic, there were a lot of adults getting diagnosed with autism, so that's why there was a huge, significant increase.

So, I would say that there's definitely going to be, and people, some people get freaked out. They're like, why are so many people getting diagnosed with autism or ADHD?

And I'm like, well, there's just more resources available. And like I said, like, during the pandemic, a lot of adults were getting diagnosed with autism because they had, like, more time on their hands, and also, like, more LGBT folks are, like, coming out because there's more acceptance in society.

And interestingly enough, there is a correlation between having autism and being queer. Like there are more neurodivergent folks who identify as queer.

I don't know the percentage, but I did read about it in a report because, again, I'm a researcher by trade. So yeah, there are more neurodivergent individuals who identify as queer.

So, I feel like there is going to be that shift. And maybe because of that, there will be a sitcom. Maybe Netflix will, you know, at least in the United States version, will bring upon like queer folks on Love on the Spectrum.

Rob Loveless

And how can members of the LGBTQ+ community ensure that they're being inclusive to people with autism?

Max Korten

Again, like just not infiltrating them. Not seeing them as like other, as like, quote unquote others.

You know, I think when I first moved to, I moved to Philly during the pandemic, you know, during the height of COVID so it wasn't a great time to meet queer folks, because, like everyone, it was like, you know, this whole, like, isolation and like masking.

Everyone's wearing masks. But, you know, just, like, just trying to be, like, genuine and friendly. I think because I'm a little bit more like, savvy, more socially, I know people who are just like, who are just being like, complete jerks and like being fake to me, so like, I can pick up on that really quickly.

And just like, just having like, genuine conversations to see, like, who is able to have conversations with me, and who is able to, you know, treat me like a human and support like what my interests are.

But again, like, because I'm a little bit more savvy, you know, socially, I can, like, pick upon that.

But for folks who aren't, I guess, like on the other end, when people are talking to them, just like being polite and not being like, you know, a jerk, and just not being like a quote-unquote like bully, or, you know, having those, like, Mean Girls vibes.

Rob Loveless

And what message would you like to send to members of the LGBTQ+ community who have autism?

Max Korten

Um, I would say, you know, get involved. You know, we talked about neurodiversity. There are folks who get really overstimulated easily, so they don't really like to socialize. I'm not talking about for all but for some.

But I would say, like, you know, try to integrate yourselves within the queer community to, you know, meet others, and it may take you know at least this happened for me, it might take some time to find your niche and but I think if you just like, put yourself out there, you'll find folks who, you know, accept for who you are, and try to find folks who, you know, have your best interests at heart, because those are the ones who are gonna be on your side.

Episode Closing (38:44)

Rob Loveless

And connecting it back to the tarot, Ten of Swords. Remember, this is signifying an end of a painful cycle. So even though it's been tough and we probably have some baggage from it, we've gotten through.

We can see the sun on the horizon knowing that there's a new cycle with better outcomes ahead for us. We're letting go of the things we can't control, so that way we can achieve peace.

And while it may sound silly, we're actually thankful for those bad, negative experiences we've had, because it's making room for something better.

So just as we talked about in this episode, the struggles with dating, the challenges with not seeing true representation on TV, we're acknowledging those bad things from the past.

It's something we can't control, and it's frustrating, and it may have even left us with a few scars, but we're hopeful for the future.

This can be a point or a shift in renewed understanding and renewed inclusivity. We're thankful for those painful experiences because it's provided us with the knowledge we needed, and it started important conversations.

And going forward, we're thankful for those bad things because it's made space for much better things for us in the future.

Connect with Max (39:44)

Rob Loveless

So Max, thank you again for coming on today to share this really important information. I was so happy to have you on today.

Can you tell us where listeners can learn more about you or connect with you, or any additional resources you think they should check out?

Max Korten

Yeah, so I'm on Instagram and TikTok. My handle is @atypical_max. I'm also on LinkedIn if you want to, like, connect professionally.

Yeah, and like I said, I live in Philly. I'm pretty active in the queer and neurodivergent community.

So, like, I'm in Stonewall, I'm in Queer Run, and I'm at in and OutLoud, so you can definitely find me there. So yeah.

Rob Loveless

So definitely connect with Max after you listen to this episode and check out those resources he talked about. They'll all be included in the show notes.

Connect with A Jaded Gay (40:37)

Rob Loveless

And you know the drill. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. For any questions for me or Max, you can reach out to me rob@ajadedgay.com.

Also, for more information on Max, episode resources, links to social, all that fun stuff, you could check out the website ajadedgay.com.

You can connect with the podcast on Instagram, TikTok, SoundCloud, and YouTube @ajadedgaypod. You can follow me personally, Rob Loveless, on Instagram @rob_loveless.

If you're feeling generous and want to help me pay for a new dishwasher, you can support the podcast on Patreon for as little as $1 a month.

That gets you instant access to episodes ad-free, a day early, plus exclusive monthly bonus content.

Or if you want to do a one-time donation, you can do so on Buy Me a Coffee, and both of those are @ajadedgaypod.

And remember: every day is all we have, so you gotta make your own happiness.

Mmm-bye.