109. Queens Slayin', Haters Prayin': A Drag-tacular Showcase (with Bev, Philly’s Queen of Comedy)

Snarky Opener (0:00)

Bev

I'm a 42-year-old drag queen living in Philadelphia. Of course, I'm jaded.

Episode Introduction (0:25)

Rob Loveless

Hello, my LGBTQuties, and welcome back to another episode of A Jaded Gay. I'm Rob Loveless and, today, I am a non-jaded gay because I got a very sweet podcast review, which I greatly appreciate.

And I'm just going to take a moment to read it real quick. So, this comes from MatiusDaninus on Apple podcasts, and it's titled A slightly jaded gay review:

“First of all, I absolutely love Rob's podcast. The range of topics he touches on in each episode are things that we within the LGBTQ+ community can benefit and learn from, especially our history that's often overlooked by mainstream society.

The well-being topics he discusses are relevant because we all have trauma that we don't know we have, and they've helped me in my therapy sessions.

Lastly, this podcast is awesome to feel more connected with the community if one lives in an area which doesn't have a large LGBTQ+ population. I highly recommend this podcast.”

And thank you very much for that. I know it might be a slightly jaded gay review, but you are in LGBTQutie my eyes.

And I really appreciate the kind words, and I'm glad that the topics we've discussed have helped you in your therapy sessions, and that you feel more connected to the community.

I know it can be tough when you're not, you know, in a large city, or if you're somewhere more rural, where there might not be a lot of LGBTQ+ representation.

So, thank you again for the kind words and for supporting the podcast.

Drag Queens (1:43)

Rob Loveless

And I hope you're very excited for today's topic too because we have a very special guest on today. I am very excited to bring her on. She'll be here momentarily, but first, let's pull our tarot card.

Tarot (1:58)

Rob Loveless

So, the card for this episode is the King of Cups. Cups, as you know, is tied to the element of water. It's connected to our emotions. So, you can think of letting your emotions flow freely.

And it's feminine energy, so it's asking us to meditate and reflect. Kings are the final card in each of the Minor Arcana suits. So, this represents we're at the end of a cycle or journey.

It's also the 14th card in the suit of Cups. So, when you add double digits together, that equals five, which is tied to change, instability, and loss. And sometimes five is considered to be the conflict number.

And while the king is traditionally a very masculine energy, the suit of Cups is representative of feminine energy, like we talked about.

So, this card is really a balance between both energies, being action-oriented and also reflective and meditative.

And when the King of Cups appears, it's a signal that we've gained control of our emotions and can accept them without allowing them to get the better of us.

Again, you can really see that balance of energies. We're in tune with our emotions and feelings. We recognize them, but we take logical action without reacting emotionally.

And while we are at the end of a journey and have mastered balancing these energies, the work isn't over.

There will always be new situations and challenges presented to us where we'll need to remain mature and keep these energies in balance.

And so, we must remember the importance of setting boundaries and expressing our emotions clearly, so that we can continue to act logically.

And tying it back to the number five, which is somewhat representative of change, instability, and loss, sometimes when we set those boundaries and express ourselves, people around us still are not going to hear us or receive our message well.

And so there may be times where we have to set appropriate boundaries to limit our time around certain people or certain situations or turn away from them completely.

And while there is loss tied to that, it is ultimately important that we keep ourselves balanced between our emotions and our logic, so that way we can move forward and pursue the path that feels most aligned to what we're looking to achieve in life.

Guest Introduction (3:56)

Rob Loveless

And while we pulled the King of Cups, I am excited to bring on a true queen today.

She is Philadelphia's Queen of Comedy and the 2019 Drag Queen of the Year. Please welcome, Bev. Hi, Bev, how are you today?

Bev

Hello. Lights, cameras, me without a stitch of makeup on. Hello. How are you?

Rob Loveless

Doing well. Thank you for joining us today. Very excited to have you on and have a really fun episode lined up here.

But before we get into it, can you tell us a little bit more about yourself, how you identify, and maybe both for yourself personally, and then for Bev?

Bev

Sure. So, my drag name is Bev. My outside-of-drag name is Drew. I am cisgender male.

I go by she/her in drag, and he/him out of drag, although you can pretty much call me whatever, as long as it's respectful, I'll respond to it so. And I'm 42 years young, living here in Philadelphia.

I moved here in 2012. I grew up in the Baltimore area, and I've been doing drag for about 13 years now. So, I'm a lady of a certain age.

Rob Loveless

Awesome. And are you a jaded or non-jaded gay today and why?

Bev

I'm a 42-year-old drag queen living in Philadelphia. Of course, I'm jaded. I don't, I think I came out of the womb jaded. I don't think I've ever been a merry sunshine.

I've always been cynical. So yes, I'm definitely a jaded gay.

Rob Loveless

Fair enough. Fair enough. Well, just to kick off the episode, in your own words, can you tell us what your own personal definition of drag is?

Bev

I grew up pre-RuPaul's Drag Race, so it's never really been like, this is my art. This is my identity. It's kind of, I kind of started approaching things always from like putting on a costume side of drag.

Like Bev kind of started out as, like a church lady type character, very like the church lady from SNL, or like Tootsie or Mrs. Doubtfire.

So, I my drag is, Bev is me putting on sparkly clothes and big wigs and crazy makeup to go make people laugh, and that's my job. As soon as it's over, I take that shit off, and then I'm done.

So, it's not, it's never been anything about my gender identity or my my form of expression in that way as it is for a lot of other people. For me, drag is simply the costume that I put on to go to work.

Rob Loveless

And when do you first remember seeing or learning about drag?

Bev

I mean, I remember my parents had to have known about me long before I knew about me, because I remember them taking me to the movies to see The Birdcage and Mrs. Doubtfire, and it was always like, especially The Birdcage, where it was like, all those pretty women are actually men.

And like, Nathan Lane's character, who I like, knew from The Lion King, was like, suddenly he was the mom, and he then he was like, the glamorous showgirl at the end.

And then they put Gene Hackman in drag and, like, it was all, like, very fancy and sparkly. And that's the first time I remember being like, oh, those are men, but they're dressed up as ladies.

Rob Loveless

And I mean, those are all great movies that you listed there, too. Very iconic in their own right.

Bev

When I came out, I was like, Mom, you took me to see The Birdcage and and Evita on Sunday afternoons. Like, don't act too surprised.

The Modern History of Drag (7:25)

Rob Loveless

Well, shifting a little bit, just to touch briefly upon the history of drag, last September, I did an episode on why brunch is considered gay.

And I say that kind of sarcastically, because obviously, you know, a meal can't be gay, but why there's gay associations.

Bev

But we, but we've claimed it. The gays have claimed brunch.

Rob Loveless

Exactly. There are some very compelling arguments as to why it is, in fact, queer. But in that episode, too, we briefly touched upon the rise of drag brunch and its place in queer culture.

Joe E Jeffreys, a drag historian at New York University and the New School, said that the drag and dine experiences actually began in the 1950s when cosmopolitan restaurants started to compete for the custom of a booming middle class with spectacle and theater to supplement the menu.

So, I was wondering, I know you talked about, you know, pre-RuPaul. Can you tell us a little bit more about the modern history of drag?

Bev

Sure yeah. I mean, modern drag. I feel like a lot of people tribute modern drag to RuPaul in general, and and then RuPaul, obviously, RuPaul had a career before Drag Race.

I remember seeing RuPaul at a Baltimore Pride when she was just a recording artist releasing dance music.

But like me, personally, like I consider modern drag like there were movies like, oh my god, Too Wong Foo and Priscilla and the comedy queens and, like, kind of the personalities, like, I don't know if you remember the beginning of the movie Too Wong Foo, there's like a drag pageant, and Wesley Snipes and Patrick Swayze and John Leguizamo are competing.

And then there's all these other queens that are contestants. Those were all like local working New York Queens. And the one that I remember specifically, her name is Coco Peru.

She's the one like that crushes the cup and gives Patrick Swayze a dirty look. I then saw her in a movie called Trick, and then she was in a movie called Girls Will Be Girls.

And that introduced me to other comedic drag queens. So, like I RuPaul was around during that time as well. Obviously, RuPaul is in Too Wong Foo, but there have always, there have been a lot of working modern queens that are still working today, that have had careers that date back to the '80s, late 70s, early '80s.

Obviously, the word drag comes from Shakespearean time. It stood for dressed resembling a girl. That's what drags stood for in theatrical uh, terminology.

And there's always been, I mean, there's always been plays and musicals and operettas and operas movies where men dressed as women.

But as far as modern drag, I equate it to like that period in the 80s, going forward with those people that I just mentioned.

Drag Genres (10:08)

Rob Loveless

And that article I cited, they also credited the cataclysmic success of RuPaul's Drag Race as bringing drag to more of a mainstream audience.

And today, drag brunches are performed outside of LGBTQ+ spaces. So pretty interesting there. And then, you know, we talked, obviously, drag brunches. There's drag shows, all of that.

Are there different types of drag in terms of, like, artistry?

Bev

Oh, absolutely. Philadelphia in general is very I again, came from Baltimore and back, at least back then, which was kind of pre-Drag Race.

Drag was very, there was one way to do drag, and if you didn't do that style of drag, you didn't work. It was a very, you competed in pageantry.

You put on a gown, you wore an up-do, and then you changed into like a leotard, and you came out and did a mix that had 16 whip sounds in it, and you danced, and that was drag.

And then when I moved to Philadelphia, there was 10 different others. I mean, there was goth drag, and there was comedy drag, and there was, I'd never actually seen trans women before, like in the Baltimore area at the time.

It it was a it was a pageantry system where you had to be a man, because there was male interview, and then you, it was the Miss Gay America system, and they, just recently, they were the last ones to kind of hold on to that belief system where you couldn't, you had to be a man, and then you turned into a woman.

I never met trans women who did drag before then, and there was burlesque performers that also did drag.

And it's now drag has become so all the styles have blended so much that I don't think there is, I don't think there is such like a I do this kind anymore, because everybody can, kind of flow in and out of different genres.

Bev’s Drag Career (12:03)

Rob Loveless

I know you touched upon at the beginning movies like Tootsie and The Birdcage as kind of recognizing what drag was, but what actually inspired you to start doing drag for yourself?

Bev

So, I have a very useful theater degree that I used. I actually did, I did local theater in the Baltimore area when I lived there, and then, when I moved to Philly, there wasn't a theater scene like I was used to.

It was always it was very like, you either worked at, like a professional theater where that was your job, job, or you kind of did, like artsy, kind of dark stuff.

And I had come from, like a community and regional theater background where I didn't fit either of those molds. So, the last show that I did in Baltimore was the musical Hairspray.

And in the stage musical Hairspray, all of the boys have to become the moms for the act one finale for the Mother-Daughter Day dance, and my friend and I created Bev and Carol, who were like the drunk church moms in the back who were, like hitting people with purses during the riot scene.

And it was, kind of it came out of like an improv background that I had from college, and just out of, like, needing a creative outlet here in Philly, I started, I like, kind of grew the Bev character.

And, like I said, she kind of started as like this, like church lady character. And I was inspired by some of the names that I said earlier, like Coco Peru, because her style, she's always had the same wig, and it's always been the same silhouette.

And I was going to be like that, and I was going to be this character. And then I got roped up in, like, Ooh, fancy costumes, big wigs, and it kind of metamorphosized over time into more of a standardized drag character.

But yeah, it came out of honestly, like, needing a creative outlet, and there wasn't one that I was used to. And then over time, went from a hobby to a job.

Rob Loveless

Can you tell us about your first drag performance?

Bev

Sure. I performed, I did a couple open mic or open call shows in Baltimore right before I moved. My friend and I tried to, like, make Bev and Carol a thing.

And, like I said, it was just, we were not there a cup of tea. And then when I moved to Philly and saw that there was an actual scene for for comedy here, I signed up for a competition show called Drag Wars that was being held at Voyeur at the time.

It's not, it's not held there anymore, but that was, that was, like, my first like entrance to to the Philadelphia drag scene.

Rob Loveless

And you told us about how you got the inspiration for Bev, and how she's kind of, you know, the drunk church lady. Can you tell us a little bit more about her and her persona?

Bev

When I meet people out of drag, they kind of always expect I'm going to be, like my drag persona, which is kind of bitchy, and like I, I do come from a background where, like.

If I, if I am reading you or I'm making, like, a funny remark that is me showing my affection, and my drag is that way.

I I didn't really identify with anyone on RuPaul's Drag Race watching it until Bianca Del Rio, and then I was like, yes, that that is my style.

Because, like, she's a warm, gregarious person, but she shows that through being like, hateful or like, saying mean things.

But it's always like, meant with tongue firmly implanted in cheek and like, that's, that's kind of how I approach drag. I always, I don't sing, I'm not a dancer.

I'm predominantly known for talking on a microphone and, like interacting with an audience.

And then my style of performance is that I make funny mixes that combine songs with sound clips from movies and TV shows and YouTube and social media and that kind of thing to again, make people laugh and catch people off guard. And it can be, it can be pretty irreverent.

I prefer to work like PG-13 to R. But if I can clean it up and and and be PG if I need to be.

Rob Loveless

You know, looking through some of your performances on YouTube, you can see these amazing costumes. I love them.

Can you share some insights into your creative process, especially when it comes to designing the looks?

Bev

Well, I guess that you could say, like I do come from the Drag Race school of of drag in the way that I'm not a DIY kind of person. I'm not. I don't I don't sew; I don't style my wigs.

I always joke I don't sew, I don't do hair, but I don't haggle. How much do you want for that perfect I'm not going to haggle with you. Here's my PayPal. Here's my Venmo. I will send it over to you.

I come up with ideas, and then I either source things from existing like existing sites. Like, I don't buy from Amazon that much, but like, you can sometimes, especially if it's like a we do a lot of, like Real Housewives style shows.

You can get, like, a sparkly dress from pretty much like Fashion Nova, Amazon, one of those. But as far as like custom stuff, over the years, you kind of learn as a queen who you trust to make things for you through trial and error.

So, I have like, three to four different people that I will reach out to for custom costumes.

And then as far as wigs, there's like a handful of people that I will reach out to, or I do follow, a lot of like nowadays there's a lot of like Instagram accounts where they will post something and you can bid on it, and then they take custom commissions.

You get introduced to them by that. But it is very it's, I'm more of a curator, I would say, than a designer.

I get an idea of what I want for something, and then I seek it out. I don't, I've painted myself into this corner of having really nice things, so I don't trust myself to make those myself.

Humor & Drag (17:52)

Rob Loveless

You talked about too, how you kind of make the snarky jokes as like an act of love to people, and that's kind of some of the drag persona there. So how do you incorporate humor into that persona?

Bev

I think it's the job, especially because a lot of when I'm like doing that type of interaction with someone, I'm like hosting the show.

And I think I always, I always say, like being a drag queen, especially at a drag brunch, and we've I wanted to, like I actually co-own a drag brunch company with three other queens here in Philly called Big Wig Brunch, plug, plug, every Saturday at the Punch Line in Northern Liberties.

Philly's only drag queen-owned and operated brunch. Bing.

But we that is, that is a drag brunch, but we get a predominantly bachelorette birthday party, new to drag kind of crowd for that particular brunch, and so my my style of drag, and my fellow co-host, Michelle's style of hosting, where it's like, I'm going to I'm going to assert my authority, but I'm going to also make you laugh while doing it, so I'll be self-deprecating, or I'll say something funny about what they're wearing, or, if it's a bachelorette party, I make fun of the ugly wigs or the blinky dick jewelry that they're wearing, or I'll make fun of the fact that they're all wearing shit that someone got from an Etsy account, and that makes them laugh.

And it like, I say it's like being being a drag queen hosts for a brunch like that is like being a kindergarten teacher for a bunch of drunk toddlers. Because it's like, all right, I'm in charge.

We're going to stay in our seats. We're going to respect the performers.

We're going to tip the performers, and then, in return, you will have a wonderful time and and like, it's that if you can make them laugh, but while still being assertive, that's the best, the best interaction, I think because you don't want to be mean.

They paid to be there. You don't want people to not have fun at a show of any kind.

But if you, if you establish that you, you are coming from a place of humor and love, and everyone around them is enjoying it as well, then then that establishes a healthy relationship for the time of that interaction that you're going to have with them over the course of the show, whether it be an hour or two.

Drag Show Etiquette (20:08)

Rob Loveless

And that's a good segue for any of the listeners who maybe aren't familiar with drag brunches or drag show etiquette, can you please just go over some basic rules of respect and everything?

Bev

The four rules that I typically give for a drag show is, I always ask if there's any drag virgins in the crowd, anyone who's never been. Inevitably, especially at a brunch like that, there's always some.

You go over, you ask who they are. You joke about, oh God, they raised their hand. That's the worst thing to do in front of a drag queen. So, then they laugh.

Rule number one, you want them to have a good time, you establish that they're there to have a good time.

But rule number two is we are going to respect the performers. We're going to consent nowadays is a very big thing.

A lot of people see as drag tends to take on more epic proportions and get more mainstream, people will see people on drag race with like the large fake breastplates, or like large padded butts and that kind of thing.

And people think it's okay to touch that, and it's like, no, I'm actually a person, so we're not going to, we're not going to touch. We will not touch you without your consent.

You are not going to touch us without our consent. So, we established that rule as well.

For our particular brunch, there's a lot of traffic with the staff and us going through the crowd, and we've had problems in the past with like, people wanting to get up and dance with us and like, join us in the performance.

It's like, no, this is not a Bar Mitzvah. This is not a wedding reception. You're not at, you're not on a dance floor, you're at the show.

You're gonna sit down, you're gonna stay in your chair, you're gonna keep your arms and legs inside the tram like we're at Disney World. And you're gonna respect that.

And then rule number four is always tip your drag queens because it is. I always joke like I still got student loans to pay off, so if you, if you would like to give me $1 that I can give to Sallie Mae, that will, that will help us both.

So have fun. Take care of the staff. Don't touch us. Give us your money.

Rob Loveless

Sounds fair enough.

Bev

Yeah, and we'll all get along swimmingly.

Rob Loveless

Definitely, definitely. And do you have a favorite drag performance you've done so far?

Bev

Um, a performance. Um, I have one that it kind of it's become my favorite because it has a really, really good story attached. It came out of a not great situation, but to try to tell not a very long story.

I got I do a lot of private events as well, and I got booked to do a wedding, a wedding shower in New Jersey through a company that I work with that books people for events, and they requested a dirty drag queen.

Hello, that's me, hello. So, they reached out to me. I was told it was going to be at a banquet hall. When I arrived, it was an Olive Garden in the banquet room, which was the back half of the restaurant, which is like a curtain drawn, and this is on a Sunday afternoon in North Jersey, at the Olive Garden.

So, the rest of the restaurant is all people that have just left church. And I am doing like all of my dirtiest material, I made a funny mix for them just, just for that.

And I was supposed to be there three hours, and after being there for 45 minutes and doing my first number, I was asked to leave because they didn't know what they signed up for.

And I was like, you all requested a dirty drag queen, like I, I could have done something else, but this is what you requested per the, per the agency. And they were like, Yeah, you need to go.

So I was, like, dumbfounded and stunned that day, but now I have, like, worked that into my act, and like, I like doing that number, because I was like, I'm gonna do this number for you now.

Imagine a stunned room of people at a wedding shower, and then the other half of the room is people that have just left church trying to enjoy their unlimited soup, salad, and breadsticks, and then after doing this number, I was handed two $100 bills as my tip and told to leave.

So, it's become one of my favorite parts of my act to do, and it always makes people laugh and people like die as soon as I start doing it.

But yeah, I guess that's a rise-from-the-ashes kind of situation, but that's quickly become one of my favorite numbers to perform for people.

Rob Loveless

There's a lot to unpack in that whole story you just said, but beyond the pay there, I have to ask. Did you at least get breadsticks?

Bev

No, I didn't even. Luckily, like, right after that number was done is when they're like, appetizers came out. I was like, all night, we're gonna let you all enjoy your appetizers and your soup and salad, and then we'll be back with the second part of the show.

And they were like, the mother of the bride was like, yeah, she's really upset. You just need to go. Sorry. Like you, you, you're the one to book this. I don't know what to tell you.

So, I did not get breadsticks that day. Nope.

Drag & The LGBTQ+ Community (25:21)

Rob Loveless

Well, shifting from just being, you know, a drag performer, to also being a member of the LGBTQ+ community, you know, good, bad, or otherwise, how has being a drag performer impacted your experiences within the community?

Bev

I mean, it's definitely been, it's been interesting over the last year or two with all that's been going on with drag and and gender and everything with that within the public eye and the media and within the within the queer community.

I have said every other time, especially, I don't know when this is going to come out, but it we're right, right before Pride Month and and as a working queen, June tends to be when, like all the organizations and businesses and companies come out of the woodwork and they want a drag queen to come perform and come talk to their company, and I I say, I'm like, I am a cis-gendered white man who does this. I'm not going to speak for the experiences of any other gender than my own.

I'm not going to speak for the trans community. I'm not going to speak for the non-binary community. I'm not going to speak for the experiences of performers of color.

I know that the privilege that I have as a white performer, so a lot of the the backlash with drag, I feel like, is just a cover for for people to discriminate against the trans community because I don't have to go out in public in drag unless I'm in a safe space.

Like I don't I, I live in the gayborhood. I have a car. I did that on purpose because I don't want to have to use public transportation in drag. I don't want to have to call an Uber unless I need to.

I don't live in an area where I feel like I'm I'm I mean, everywhere in the city is not 100% safe, but like, I live in an area that's predominantly well-traveled with other members of the queer community.

I'm not living in other parts of the city. I mean, someone was just murdered three weeks ago, a member of the queer community who does drag, who did drag because they were harassed going from the train station and attacked.

And that's very difficult to understand in 2024 but then you look at how the legislation and everything is targeting people like that that do have to go out in public, like in wigs and and and makeup and that kind of because that's their gender identity.

And I think that we as the queer community need to try to protect those individuals more than we do. But again, I can only advocate for my experiences.

Drag in the Mainstream (28:21)

Rob Loveless

I know we touched upon RuPaul's Drag Race before, how it's really increased in popularity, and it's really kind of brought more exposure to the art of drag.

How do you feel about drag becoming more mainstream?

Bev

I think it's a double-edged sword. I think it's great that it is more mainstream, because it certainly allows for a lot of a lot more opportunities, a lot more a lot of places that are not quote-unquote queer or gay spaces are now doing drag shows and drag brunches because they see the popularity of RuPaul's Drag Race, and it certainly has opened the door for a lot of people to consider the art form of drag they probably didn't have exposure to it otherwise.

It is a little bit of a slippery slope. And this is the aging drag queen and me talking, but like, it does kind of create this, like, homogenized style. I just had a not-great interaction with someone who wanted to book me for a private event and kept using the words of, really want something more high energy.

We really want something more. I'm like, Drag Race has made everyone think that every drag queen does, like death drops and flips and splits and all that kind of stuff and like, that's that is an excellent talent to have, but like, for me, that's not what a quote-unquote lip sync is.

Like, yes, you need to be a performer, but not every song needs that, and not every person needs to be able to do that. It's also created kind of an ease with becoming a drag queen, which in one way is great, but it also kind of. When I was, I I my friends and I joke that that have been doing drag for a while.

It's like, you can tell when someone went through what we call a booger phase and when they didn't. Because, like, I feel like every drag performer needs to start out ugly and then learn and get better and, like, grow into something.

But if you're like, watching YouTube tutorials and you ordered shit on Amazon on like, Monday and by Thursday, you're a quote-unquote drag queen, to me, that is not anything particularly special. That you're just watching what you saw on TV and you want to go do that.

It creates, it creates a dichotomy that it's like, yeah, it's, it's, it's great that it's there, and it's that big. But I feel like in other ways, it's like, not as special as it used to be.

And also, like nowadays, there's 9,000 different iterations of Drag Race, and like, back when it started, the girls that were on the first few seasons got like, a year or two to, like, tour and make money and make a name for themselves.

And now it's like, well, as soon as one season is over, we're doing All-Stars, and then this country's one starts, and then it's versus the world, and then it's this All-Stars. And it's like, they get, like, they don't even get 15 minutes of fame now.

They get, like, five minutes to try to make some money, and it's so expensive to get on Drag Race now, it's like, well, hopefully, you make your money back in the time that you've got because there's 15 other girls that are coming right through the door behind you.

Rob Loveless

I can imagine too, besides just, you know, RuPaul's Drag Race, there's so many different social platforms like YouTube and TikTok, which I'm sure, you know, allow for more content creators and more drag queens to perform there, but it could be even harder to kind of get the attention to really show your talents through that.

Bev

Oh yeah, yeah. There's constantly pressure to like, have content, new looks, and new this and new that.

Like, I keep up with it in some ways, but in other ways, I'm just like, I've basically, nowadays just use social media for like, promotion of events, because that's what.

I'm worried about the people that are paying the cover to get in the door and see the show.

Like I've established enough of a presence online where it's like, if this looks fun to you, here's where to come see it, if not, scroll on to Plastic Tiara. I don't care. It's, that's fine.

Rob Loveless

I know you said there's a ton of iterations of Drag Race. Do you have any favorite drag icons throughout either RuPaul's Drag Race or any just performers?

Bev

Absolutely. Yeah. I, and luckily, I've had the fortune of working with a lot of them.

I mentioned a few of them earlier, but, like I early in my drag career, I got a chance to do a quote-unquote Queens of Comedy show where I got to work with what I consider to be legendary comedy queens like Jackie Beat, who's from LA and has recorded songs for years, Bianca Del Rio, Coco Peru, Varla Jean Merman, Sherry Vine.

Those were the big, big, big hitters that I've I kind of when I was younger coming out, they were like the drag queens that were at big at the time, and movies, like I said, movies like Girls Will Be Girls and Trick, they were all featured in that.

And then when, like, you would go out to the gay bar, like Jackie Beat had us had a parody of Baby Got Back, called Baby Got Front, that was all about, like, a guy's big dick, and like, like, they would play that at the gay bar, and it's like, oh my god, she's amazing.

So, getting to work with them was incredible. As far as within the Drag Race, like girls, I gear towards the comedy girls. I think Jinkx Monsoon is incredibly talented. BenDeLaCreme, Bianca, I actually had, I worked with Bob the Drag Queen a bunch of times before she got on Drag Race, because I used to go up to New York and do her show.

Thorgy, Miz Cracker. Oh God, who else, did the comedy girls? I mean, those are the big hitters. Nina West was a sweetheart when we when we worked with her.

So, yeah, I again, I, I appreciate the beauty of the girls that consider themselves the fashion girls or the look girls, but that's just not something that I know, that I'll ever achieve, or nor do I aspire to.

So those are the ones that I look up to, as far as like it and like what they've reached is like what I'm working towards, which is like doing something on that level, like touring and having this show that's all, like your baby and you're out there and you're doing it and bringing it across the country or across the world.

Diversity in Drag (34:49)

Rob Loveless

The drag community is known for its diversity and inclusivity. Can you tell us a little bit about the importance of representation within the drag community?

Bev

Absolutely. We are in a time and a place where where there needs to be representation of everyone, not just not just race, not just gender, not just performance style.

I mean, again, I talked earlier about Philly in general, like Philly has a huge and thriving drag king community, which are predominantly like trans masc performers and and and female-identifying performers that that dress male-identifying.

Me personally, I try to keep all of my shows at least 50% performers of color because that's, it's, it's, if everyone looks the same in your show and everyone's doing the same thing, then then that after like, the second or third, like, it's boring, like.

Everything should be, it should be diverse because it's appealing to every, there's something for everyone in the audience.

And if that's not your cup of tea, it's exposing you to what that is, and it's opening you up to a style or a song or a dance or a color or something that you may not have been exposed to.

And we need to provide opportunities for those that don't have the exposure or the opportunity that because of marginalization and because they of background and economics and that type of setback that they've dealt with.

And again, as somebody who has a platform, I personally try to provide those experiences.

And I I think that I can't speak for everything in Philadelphia, but I think a lot of a lot of, at least the performers that I work with are adhere by those ideals as well.

Some don't, some don't, but I don't work with them. So, it's fine, but we won't call them out, at least not.

Rob Loveless

Maybe in the after-show.

Bev

Yeah, maybe in the after-show.

Drag & Activism (36:55)

Rob Loveless

You know drag also has a strong connection to LGBTQ+ rights and activism.

For example, during the Stonewall Riots, drag queens rioted against police repression of queer venues at Stonewall in 1969 and they risked their safety to march at the earliest Pride parades over the years that followed.

And then throughout the AIDS crisis, they raised funds for research and support services while they and their friends died from the disease. So how do you see drag intersecting with activism today?

Bev

Drag, I think has always been and will need to continue to be political. Dealt with a situation within the last year where I had to sever a relationship with a bar here in Philadelphia that I had worked at for 10 years because they tried to censor a performer from doing a number in support of Palestine.

They were a second-generation Palestinian immigrant, and I personally am pro-Palestine, but I get that there are those that are not, but I don't think it's the place of a bar owner or bar management to be policing what statements can or can't be made in there, like, just in general.

And that particular situation, that owner said to us, he's like, I just don't want anything political in my building. I was like, do you understand that there wouldn't be a gay rights movement without, nowadays they would be referred to as trans women, back then, they were considered transvestites or drag queens.

But like, if it weren't for Sylvia Rivera and Marsha P. Johnson actually beginning the Stonewall Riots, we wouldn't have the modern gay rights movement.

You can't tell a room full of performers that they can't do anything political. I think that now with what's going on in the world, yes, I approach things from comedy, but I still do things poking at those in power that are keeping us down and are establishing laws and sanctions that are meant to keep us down.

And I think that it is, it is important for drag performers as artists to continue to resist that and comment on that and and keep it visible because what you're seeing on the news doesn't reflect that.

You have to get that sometimes from art because you're not going to get it from quote-unquote non-biased journalism.

And drag, while it can be scapegoated, it also is, it is scapegoated because people are putting themselves out there for the purpose of being visible.

Anti-Drag Legislation (39:41)

Rob Loveless

Over the past few years, we've seen a rise in drag bans and anti-drag legislation claiming that drag is such a threat to children. So, can you tell us more about that?

Bev

Sure. I think it's all distraction. It's it's it's, if we cared about children and we cared about protecting them, then we would have banned guns 20 years ago.

You can't say that you're worried about the safety of your child when a child has never been killed at a drag queen story hour. A drag, a child has never been killed at a drag show.

They lots of them have been killed in school shootings. And I'm not going to go, not gonna talk about religion or the church or anything, but as far as protection of children, they're not exactly protected there as well.

It's a lot of it's a lot of smoke and mirrors and, oh, look over there to deflect from a lot larger political issues.

Last summer with the drag bans and with like places pulling sponsorships and pulling Pride relationships, it just it, it's, it all comes down to money, unfortunately and who's paying the bills and who's not.

And it's a lot easier to look at a marginalized community who you think is passive and not going to fight back.

And that's why shows like We're Here on on HBO, and things like that are out there, and like actively resisting that type of that type of viewpoint.

Rob Loveless

How have these drag bans impacted you, individually, and the drag community overall?

Bev

Personally, I I am not, I joke, but it's true. I'm not a drag queen story hour kind of drag queen. I did not do this to read Green Eggs and Ham to your fucking toddler, but I was, I was targeted by a right-wing blog. Basically, I'm not going to call it a publication; blog.

I did a corporate Pride event two years ago for a large company out in the burbs, and when I got there, I did not know ahead of time, but when I got there, it was a, it was a family-friendly all-ages event, and so there were a lot of kids there.

And they asked me, kind of last minute to have a Pride fashion show for all the kids, because a lot of them were wearing, like, rainbow clothes. And I was like, Sure, no problem.

So, I brought the kids up and introduced them to the crowd, and we all clapped for them, and at the end, we took a picture.

Well, apparently someone within that company didn't like that that event was occurring, so the photos of me with those kids were put on this blog, and they used my my legal name as well as my drag name, and then, like, blurred out all the faces of the children, so it looked like I'm this big monster clown, and here's and I'm with all these innocent children.

And this was also around the time that the Roe v. Wade situation was being overturned. And so, the headlines were like, this, company uses money to force drag, to force children to be around drag queen, also providing money for abortions.

Like, it was a whole like, but just like, and then like, I kind of got doxed a little bit. I ended up having to, like, change my Twitter handle and like, and I got some some emails and that kind of stuff that were all just like, from spam accounts and people that, of course, aren't going to show their actual things.

They're going to hide behind a burner account. So that was scary for a minute. And then last summer, I had a relationship with a Philly bar and restaurant that had been doing drag brunches, and they kind of caved to the pressure of when the whole Dylan Mulvaney situation happened.

They canceled all of their future gay events, and I called them out on it, because it happened, like, a week before Pride and I said, I think it's really shitty that you are doing this right before Pride Month because you claim that, like you were fine getting the gay money for the last year.

But then there's you get a little bit of pushback, and they didn't respond to that.

And then here's a little kicker, if anybody wants to do any sleuthing on their social media, I won't say the name of the venue, but they they canceled all future drag events, and then, in honor of Pride Month, decided to sell t-shirts with their brewery logo in rainbow across with a portion of the proceeds going to the William Way LGBT Center.

So, they canceled all gay events, then sold their own merchandise that a portion of the proceeds were going to go to a gay community center. Oh, okay, cool. Great. Thanks for being an ally.

Rob Loveless

Yeah, gotta love that rainbow capitalism.

Bev

Yeah. So, those are really the only two experiences I've dealt with. Again, I don't want to speak for other people, but I know that there were, there were a lot of events across the at least this area that I saw where, like, Prides were.

I know that, like West Chester Pride, a year or two ago, they canceled it due to threats from people in the community saying that there was going to be violence if, if the outdoor Pride festival happened, they caved to that.

Events like other non-LGBT establishments that friends of mine had were all canceled last year because a backlash or negative, they would post an ad on social media, and then they'd get all these negative, hateful comments and threats of violence, and it was scary.

And you can, you can, you can back down from that, or you can stand up to it. And unfortunately, I think a lot of businesses backed down from it, and kind of left us all out here to to hang dry.

I'm not a huge, I'm not a huge TikToker, but I watched the all that, like, they put Dylan Mulvaney out there to like, sell their product, and then like, left her hanging high and dry to like, deal with all this shit.

It's like she, I'm I'm sure Dylan Mulvaney did not reach out to Bud Light to ask if she could work with them.

They saw her as a prominent member of the community to hawk their shit for probably a couple grand.

And then when that blew up, they they backed away and left her out there to get all that that negative attention. It's, it's sad.

Rob Loveless

And I also feel like Bud Light doesn't have the best reputation for being Pride-friendly.

I know, a few years back, they had like, a Pride campaign that said LGBTQ, which is like, let's grab beers tonight, queens or something.

And they had a like, rainbow next to a bottle. But then they want to participate, but they don't want to walk, you know, walk the walk too.

Bev

Oh yeah. Target this year isn't even putting their Pride collection in the store. It's only available online.

And I watched a Instagram reel where it was a guy like reviewing it, and compared with years past, it's like, very subdued and very muted this year.

They're like, all right, well, I guess we'll do it, but we're not gonna sell it in the stores, and we don't want it to be like too over the top. It's like, really, you're still, you still want the money, but you don't.

Rob Loveless

And I understand safety is a concern, you know, for retail spaces like Target, but at the end of the day, this is violence that LGBTQ+ people face every day.

Bev

Absolutely.

Rob Loveless

And in years past, it's been more tolerable for retailers, so they've been able to profit off of the rainbow merchandise and enjoy it when times were good, but now that times are getting tough, they're just caving to the pushback where we as a community don't have that option.

Bev

Absolutely.

Rob Loveless

Is there anything that we can do as an LGBTQ+ community to push back against these ridiculous anti-drag laws?

Bev

I mean, you can go out and support your local performers and your local if you see that there's a demonstration or you see that there's a protest or a march, you can certainly show up, because the more the larger they are, the more visible they are, and the more valid they are, in terms of in the eyes of the media, which gets that out there.

Obviously, voting, not just voting in the presidential election, vote in your local elections, because those are the that's what's going to affect you locally.

I'm seeing a lot of people saying on social media right now that they're just not going to vote because they don't like any of the candidates this this year, and it's like, That's terrifying.

That's terrifying because you're not just voting for one person. You're voting for a lot of things, and a lot of a lot of negative, a lot of bad can be done. Yeah, just try to stay try to stay active.

Try to not, not just stick your head in the sand. Though I know it seems like sometimes that's the easiest, and I'm myself, I'm guilty of that. I try not to get to, especially on social media, I try not to get, like, too preachy, because, again, I approach this as a means of promotion for my business, and as a private business owner.

I've worked for myself doing drag. I don't want something getting taken over by the trolls, because then you just then it just then you can't use that anymore.

So, yeah, just do, I guess what you can, means, and the resources that you have as an individual.

Support Drag Performers Year-Round (49:44)

Rob Loveless

And I know there were some heavy topics we covered in this episode, so I definitely want to kind of end it on a more uplifting note. So, a few last questions here.

Even though Pride month is over, how can we continue to support drag performers and our community year-round?

Bev

Well, my Venmo... I'm kidding. Year-round, I mean, Pride is not just one month out of the year. Drag queens and drag performers in general, performers in general, are not just performing 30 days out of the year.

Like at least for me personally, this is my full-time job now. I left mine, my day job last year to focus on this full time. So certainly, I joke at my Drag Race viewing parties, but it's it's true.

Like, if you if, if the drag queens that you know are only the ones from RuPaul's Drag Race, then you're not a fan of drag you're just a fan of a TV show.

That's like saying I like music, but I only know the performers from American Idol. That's not that's not the same thing. If you don't know the local performers in your wherever you're located, then you don't know, then you're not a fan of drag.

Like nowadays, especially, drag is pretty much everywhere. It's, it's it's at it's at the pub around the corner. It's at the grill. They're doing a show. It's, there's bingos and fire halls.

There's, I mean, it's Go, go out there. Try to, like, if you don't know anybody, Google where you are and drag queen and I bet somebody's name or somebody's Instagram is gonna pop up, and then you follow that person, and you see where they are, and you see who they work with, and you go out to their shows. If you don't, I joke that, like, yeah, give me your money.

But like, if you're if you can't afford to, if you can't afford to tip or you can't afford to go to a show, I bet if you messaged that performer and said, hey, I've never been to a drag show before. I really want to come. I don't have a lot of money. I don't have enough.

They'll be like, you know what? What's your name? I'll put you on the list. I want you to be able to come. At least, I at least that's what I would do.

And if you don't have dollars, like, just be like, have fun. Like, give us energy. I'd rather, I'd rather have a room full of people that are clapping along and having a good time, and maybe not giving me the best money, than a bunch of people that are just sitting there, like bored, looking up to me and like, maybe once in a while I make a $20. That's that's not fun.

So, learn the performers. See where they're performing, go out, have a good time. That keeps that keeps that business open, it keeps that person working, and it exposes you to people that you've never seen before.

Advice for Aspiring Drag Performers (52:29)

Rob Loveless

Are there any resources for aspiring drag queens to help them promote themselves or purchase costumes for their performances?

Bev

I mean, newer performers do tend to it's easy now, like I said, to do stuff through like Fashion Nova and Amazon and Temu and all that kind of stuff. That's easiest.

And then as you start to go, I would say, as you start to go out and meet performers and meet, just meet. Oh, so and so does hair. Oh, my God, I would love to. Like you can slowly work your way up.

Also, I personally started doing stuff with like Goodwill and thrift stores, because I came from a comedy background, and it's easy to find stuff there. There's always if, if there's a will, there's a way.

You don't have to be a glamazon coming out of the womb. You're, everybody's everybody can learn. Everybody has a place to grow.

If you're approaching it to be Instagram famous in the first 10 minutes, then you're not doing it for the right reason. Take your time.

Learn the right and wrong way to do things that sometimes comes from trial and error, and if you're meant to do it, you'll be successful.

Rob Loveless

What words of wisdom would you give to someone who's interested in exploring drag for the first time?

Bev

Don't. I'm kidding. I would just say, do it for the right reason, like what I just said, if you're doing it because you think it's an easy way to make money, or you want to be Instagram or TikTok famous.

Who knows? You might have success doing that. I, there have been people on Drag Race that have only been known because of their TikTok.

So, I would, my advice would be to just go, go into it for for the right reason. Do it because you have a passion for it because it's something that's been calling you to do it.

You have it's your it's your creative outlet. It's something that's going to keep you motivated. Because, if it's just something that like you wanted to do because you wanted to be famous, you're you're not going to have fun, you're not going to want to do it.

You're going to hate doing it, and probably won't continue doing it. It's got to be something like inside of you that motivates you to keep doing it.

Episode Closing (54:50)

Rob Loveless

And connecting it back to the tarot, King of Cups. We have reached the end of a cycle, or journey, and Cups is all about emotions.

So, it's probably a journey where we really had to look within to understand our emotions and really put ourselves in alignment.

So that way, we're understanding of our emotions and what feels right to us, but that we're not acting emotionally. We're thinking through logically to take inspired action forward.

And we've probably had to implement some boundaries to really put that into practice so that way we're not allowing our emotions to get the best of us.

Again, with this card, it's the 14th card in the suit of Cups, which, if we add it together, equals five, and that's sometimes known as the conflict number. It signals instability and loss.

So sometimes, when we're setting those boundaries for ourselves, there will be loss along the way. We need to either remove people from our lives or remove ourselves from situations.

And just like Bev talked about, there are a lot of boundaries that have to be implemented within drag regarding what organizations and companies you work with, making sure that they're aligned to your mission and your values going forward.

And whether or not you're an LGBTQ+ performer, remember, there are always those boundaries we need to set, especially as members of community.

A lot of our existence is politicized, and so we really need to set those intentional boundaries, so that way, we're surrounding ourselves with people, organizations, maybe corporations, who genuinely have our best interests at heart and are aligned with how we want to move forward.

And again, while it's easy to get defensive when somebody may, you know, have differing values than you, it's really important that we balance our logic and emotions.

We're allowed to feel a certain way if we feel somebody is challenging ourselves, but how do we communicate that?

How do we communicate that clearly and appropriately, and how do we set those healthy boundaries?

And even if there's a previous situation in the past that we've overcome, you know, life is about cycles. There's always going to be new opportunities on the horizon, new challenges, new obstacles.

So, we're going to have to constantly practice and refine our boundaries and really work to keep both the logic and the emotion in balance.

So even though we've achieved this mastery of it in the current moment, we have to continue refining that skill for the future.

Connect with Bev (56:50)

Rob Loveless

Bev, thank you so much for joining us today. Can you tell the listeners where they can learn more about you and connect with you and find your performance schedule?

Bev

I thought you'd never ask. I am pretty much on every social media possible, as it's Bev bitch. I always say it's Bev bitch, like Britney, but elderly.

I-T-S-B-E-V-B-I-T-C-H, that is my Instagram, my TikTok, my Twitter, my Venmo, bing, and I have a website. It's, it's the website is, itsbevswebsite.com. I-T-S-bevswebsite.com. That has all my show schedule.

If you're following me on Instagram, I always post, I post weekly, my my schedule for the the coming week. My YouTube, you can find me @itsbevbitch there as well.

I, I don't post a lot on YouTube anymore, because YouTube is an easy way for someone to steal your ideas. And I have, myself and other queens, had situations where like, oh, look at her.

She watched my video and now she's doing my exact same mix, but just slightly different. And you literally came to my show and you saw that, and now you're doing that. Okay, cool.

So, I don't post too much on YouTube, but yeah, everything else I've said is pretty much all under it's Bev bitch.

Connect with A Jaded Gay (58:16)

Rob Loveless

And as always, thank you for listening. If you have any questions for myself or Bev or feedback for the episode, please feel free to reach out to me rob@ajadedgay.com.

Also remember to rate, review, and subscribe to the podcast. Five stars greatly helps to spread the word about the podcast. Get it up in the algorithm so that more people can find it and connect with it as we build a larger LGBTQutie community.

You can also check out the website for more information on Bev and other guests, episode resources, links to merchandise and socials, all that fun stuff ajadedgay.com.

You can connect with the podcast on Instagram, TikTok, SoundCloud, and YouTube @ajadedgaypod. You can follow me personally, Rob Loveless, on Instagram @rob_loveless.

Also, if you're feeling generous, you can support the podcast on Patreon for as little as $1 a month. That gets you access to episodes a day early, ad-free, plus exclusive monthly bonus episodes.

And if you sign up at the $3 and $5 tier, you get some additional goodies. Or if you'd rather, do a one-time donation, you could do so through Buy Me a Coffee at any dollar amount. Both of those are @ajadedgaypod.

And remember: every day is all we have, so you got to make your own happiness.

Mmm-bye.

Outtake (59:48)

Rob Loveless

And this is the part where I'm going to do like little transition into this part. So, it's not going to seem so, you know, hard cut here.

Bev

Sure, Rob, sure it's not.

Rob Loveless

I swear the magic happens behind the scenes.