105. The Pride Divide (with Tyrell Brown)

Snarky Opener (0:00)

Tyrell Brown 

Often Prides, we think about them as, like, these huge fun parties, but like some people, that is the only day that they will be in contact with a direct resource or service. It is the only day.

Episode Introduction (0:32)

Rob Loveless 

Hello, my LGBTQuties, and welcome back to another episode of A Jaded Gay.

I'm Rob Loveless and, today, I'm a non-jaded gay just because I've been feeling super productive lately, and, like, I've just been getting a lot of, like, podcast work stuff done.

Like, you know, that montage in Legally Blonde when she has the rough beginning at Harvard, and then she, you know, wears her bunny costume to the computer store and buys a new computer.

You hear that Watch Me Shine song play in the background, and she's kicking butt, studying while working out and getting things done, and finding her place at school.

Yeah, that's kind of how I felt lately. I mean, no bunny costume, but I definitely have just been, like, charging through, putting together podcast scripts, getting things done around the house, planning ahead.

So, I just, I feel super productive. That being said, I am still like passing out on the couch at 5 pm fully exhausted. But, you know, work hard, sleep hard.

The Pride Divide (1:22)

Rob Loveless 

And speaking of shining, Happy Pride, everyone! We are here. It is our time to celebrate.

Just a reminder that it is important to remember LGBTQ+ causes and history year-round, not just at Pride. So, let's have those rainbows visible 365, days a year.

And on the topic of rainbows, I am super excited for today's guest.

We are going to be talking about how there's been some divide over how members of the LGBTQ+ community view Pride should be celebrated, and as part of that, how we can build a more inclusive Pride for all.

So, we're going to get into it, but first, let's pull the tarot.

Tarot (2:01)

Rob Loveless 

And how exciting. We are kicking off Pride Month with a Major Arcana card. We pulled Strength in reverse.

Strength is the number eight, which represents progress and decisive action. Also, the number eight is similar to the infinity sign, which we also see on this card.

So, it's a reminder that our energy and magic is constantly flowing through us. Now, when we draw this card in reverse, we may be feeling a lack of self-confidence or like we don't trust ourselves.

So, we need to remind ourselves that our core strength is always with us and that it's time to reconnect with it.

This card is also a call to action, to return to being heart-centered and to show ourselves kindness. We need to remember to take care of ourselves so that we can recharge our energy levels.

And through these actions, we can revitalize our courageousness to endure and overcome future obstacles.

Guest Introduction (2:50)

Rob Loveless 

So, with that in mind, I am very excited to welcome our next guest.

They are the executive director of the radical social justice organization GALAEI. Please welcome Tyrell Brown.

Hi, Tyrell, how are you?

Tyrell Brown 

Hi, how are you, Rob? Nice to meet you. Officially.

Rob Loveless 

Nice meeting you too. Thank you for joining us today. We have a very exciting episode. I'm glad to have you on to talk about a very important topic.

But before we do that, can you kind of tell the listeners just a little bit about yourself, how you identify, your pronouns, all that fun stuff?

Tyrell Brown 

Of course. Yeah. So, my name is Tyrell Brown. I am the executive director at GALAEI and the president and program director of Philly Pride 365. I use they/them, pronouns.

And Philly Pride 365 was really born out of a desire to make sure that Pride was being seen and lifted up all year round and GALAEI was the perfect place to do that because our mission is already centered in serving and resourcing the least and the most marginalized in our community, particularly Brown and Black queer and trans folks.

So, it really was a perfect place to kind of bring, you know, large-scale programming, and really add other layers to it. Because what we do is we pride ourselves as, you know, providing a an apparatus at Pride that's just really a valve to make sure that our community gets resourced that day.

And that's, you know, not just the implicit resource that it is being with community for the day, you know, goof and Roth dancing stages, sound and all the art that's getting displayed and shared.

But also, it's about getting, you know, life-saving resources into people's hands too, and really working over the past year to implement a systemic approach to this, so that way, you know, people are not just getting joy and experiencing joy that day, they're also walking away with like a tangible resource.

And we learned that really through the pandemic, you know, and coming out of the pandemic, and really people you know, not engaging in wellness initiatives.

Uh, the way we would like them to, simply because there's other socio-economic factors that are preventing them from doing so, or acting as a barrier to them doing so.

So, you know, very much, like, you know, you don't get your mpox, you know, vaccination and because it doesn't make sense, if you can't feed food in the cupboard, right?

It doesn't make sense, even if you're lonely. You know, there is a epidemic of loneliness that I think exists in all communities, but specifically in marginalized communities.

So, we really pride ourselves in kind of bridging all of those things to create a safety net to serve community, and using Pride as sort of the it's like the camel that carries it through the desert, right?

So, and I think that's really what the mission was when I first, singularly took the reins of it, to make sure that those things were going to continue to happen for years to come.

Rob Loveless 

And I'm really excited to talk more about GALAEI's resources for the LGBTQ+ community.

Before we get into that though, I do like to ask all my guests, are you a jaded or non-jaded gay today, and why?

Tyrell Brown 

You know I'm a non-jaded gay. I think in general I like, I'm a Leo fire sign, so I am pretty, like, it's weird, like, I'm silly and I'm fun, but I'm also very serious, so I'm not jaded, and I don't really land on, like, the cynical side of things.

I am wholly, like, mission-driven constantly. You can't tell jokes around me without me going like, that's true, but according to so, you know, because I want to, I always am.

My life right now, um, my life right now is really about resources and resourcing and serving community.

And I don't get to put that down, even when I'm just like, hanging out, you know, at a local bar or what have you, with friends. It's like, I can't take the hat off, because oftentimes you just never know.

I've had people come up to me with ideas for things that they want to co-create or co-collaborate on. But I've also had people come up to me and like, go, like, hey, I have this friend who needs right.

So, and that's not even talking about my DMs. Like, so it's like, there's always an opportunity to resource others. So, it's kind of kind of keep that, like levity there and that silliness.

But I'm kind of always, you know, figuring out the problem which is, which is in my head right now. Because I'm like, oh my god, I'm really like, so I describe me to myself so.

Rob Loveless 

Well, I love the energy you're bringing, and it ties perfectly.

Actually, the tarot card we pulled today is Strength, which is tied to Leo, so I think the energies just match up perfectly for this.

Tyrell Brown 

There we go. Yes.

What is GALAEI? (7:56)

Rob Loveless 

So, with that being said, you kind of touched upon it briefly in your introduction. But can you tell the listeners about GALAEI and your work with the organization?

Tyrell Brown 

Yeah, so interesting story. My start here at GALAEI. So, you know, I actually, for very many years of my life, didn't really work in nonprofits. I actually am an early childhood education teacher.

So, I've taught everything from, you know, preschool to kindergarten readiness, even some kindergarten, first and second grade as well, especially during the pandemic, when we just had to smash classrooms together as much as possible to make sure students were resourced.

And then through that, I also started doing children's programming for the Toronto wellness conference. And so, I built a familiarity, you know, with programming.

So, I was already queer and already Black, so I was, you know, but this was like, how do I operationalize these other layers into actual programming?

And so, working with the trans wellness conference, especially dealing with such a vulnerable population.

And I always tell people like the most marginalized population on the planet are children, they are taking advantage of, used as tokens, and, you know, really systemically abused and discarded in ways that, you know, we all are familiar with to some degree, but it's kind of like they're implicitly discounted in so many ways by our systems, right?

So, you know, seeing that and operating within that lens at the trans woman's conference first really gave me my key into like, oh my god, you can turn the light on and keep the light on and ignited in children just by providing a space for them to be free and to to be liberated and to be joyful, right?

And and like that really kind of born out the next steps in this. I then, after that, was still teaching throughout that time, but then I decided to run for office, right?

And let's just say, like everyone, if you know a friend that's running for office, check on them, right? Because it is a very daunting experience. It challenges every principle that you have.

You know it's there's a difference between being an activist and being a politician, right? You you really have to navigate those things delicately and treat yourself with care, which is what I learned.

But then I was that summer before I had announced to run, I was asked by the former executive director here to come and help them at the organization cultivate their first camp for queer and trans kids here at GALAEI. So, they contracted me to come in to help co-develop the programming for it. It was successful.

It was fun. Got to meet the staff for the first time. And really it was just a good summer. It was a really good fun summer.

And one of the staff there was like, you should, you know, you should apply for this position. It's opening up. And so, I did, and originally, I did not get the position.

I was told that we, there was three of us that scored equivalent to one another in the top three, but I was running for office, and they were like, You know what, if you actually win, though, like, we're not going to do an employee search in like five months or something like that again.

And then one of the other applicants, then subsequently, a few weeks later, decided to drop out and and I guess, retain the position that they were already in.

And they gave me a call, and they were like, so would you consider, and then that's how I started here at GALAEI. And coming from a classroom is very different.

So I was in a classroom, it's very routine, you know, and you know, you know, you do, you know math at 10 am and then there's snack, and then we go outside, and then you come back, and it's very formulaic, step by step, right?

Whereas, like, working in an administrative capacity is, like, I was like, what is this? Right? Like I don't know if I'm actually working right now because it doesn't feel like I have a task or a roadmap in front of me.

But I've always been an organizer, so I was like I had organized in grassroots capacities, first for Sanders's campaign. Bernie Sanders campaign.

Incidentally, in 2020 we started this grassroots startup in Philadelphia called Philly for Bernie, which is really what sort of, like reignited that, like activist child that I was when I was in my early 20s and late teens.

And what happened was, is like, I I don't know, it just like lit a fire within me because I was running around for free, uncompensated, like running around the city of Philadelphia, you know, really kind of moving events and such, along for the campaign.

So much so that the second week of the pandemic, and I'll never forget this. It was like, you know that second week where we're like, oh yeah, I gotta go back to work on Monday, because they hadn't announced yet that, like, the world was ending possibly.

But like, I was laying there in bed, and it was like noon, and I looked down at my phone, and my Facebook Messenger is ringing, and it was Levy Sanders, Bernie Sanders's oldest son, and I was just like, what?

And then, like, answer the phone, and we proceeded to have like, a three-hour conversation, which he was just kind of like, no, we see what you're doing.

And they like, like, just affirming and acknowledge me for what you know, I was doing for the campaign, which is then when I realized, like, I was like, oh, you know, like the tools that I was giving and cultivating as even a youth and then a young adult are actually all these things that are applicable now.

So that really started my organizing or ignited, reignited my organizing capacities. And, you know, so then coming to GALAEI, you know, again, was like, coming from the classroom, and then that's when I hit my stride. Was when I realized, like, oh, all this is, is actually organizing work, right?

And then I was like, I know how to do this. I know how to create programming. I know how to coach people. I know how to lead, right?

I know how to do those things because I've spent years in classrooms with children, with people might it's not even insulting, but it's not that different.

Really, you're you're tasked with managing personalities, right? And like, I was like, I know how to do that, and I also know how to create cool, fun things to do.

I know how to create innovative things to do. So that's how I, like really, kind of got started in GALAEI. Already at GALAEI, there was really robust programming.

You know, we started as an ASO back in 1989 grassroots organization, just really digging our heels in to serve, you know, the Latinx community, especially with disparities in regards to AIDS during the height of the crisis.

And then, you know, we've expanded the organization over the, you know, the duration of that to now to include for trans-by-trans programming, which we call the T.I.N.G.S program.

It's trans, intersex, non-binary, and gender non-conforming services. I like it because it says T.I.N.G., and it's like, it reminds me of Shabba Ranks and, like the 90s Ting-a-ling a ling.

So, so there's T.I.N.G.S programming and that really focuses on linkages to Care, resources, like, we lay it on the line, really here. So that's everything.

We get, we there's been times when we're like we have to come out of our own pockets, because we're not going to let a person in our community sleep outside or sleep in their car or go without food or whatever.

So sometimes it does take risking your own personal funds and comfort to make sure that that happens.

And so, we've done that, and our program manager Hazel here, is really dynamic and really providing those services.

And then we have our S.P.L.A.T. programming, which is our youth and young adult and Family Services, and that really centers around creating events affinity groups to really affirm and lift up queer and trans identities for young people, and then also support for parents who themselves are trans, and maybe dealing with children who they need support with around their transition, and also families that have youth who are queer and trans, and the the parents are also dealing with, you know how to come to terms with that.

So, we really provide all of those things through one one-on-one case, one-to-one casework, and then also through mobilization and outreach efforts to make sure that people are affirmed.

And then really, I think the cornerstone program of GALAEI is our P.O.P. wellness program. And P.O.P. was an is an acronym to stands for prioritizing our people, and that's just the prevention and education angle of all of this that sort of undergirds things.

So, you know, it's HIV prevention and education, but also with a layer that discusses all body wellness and approach to that in that fashion.

So not in a dogmatic or conservative way, but really looking at it through the lens of sex positivity and how we can address these emergent needs in our community in the health disparities and socioeconomic disparities, especially for people living with HIV, which a lot of times even right now, people don't treat it as if it's still the emergent crisis that it is, but it is, especially in Black and Brown communities.

The the numbers have been steady for, you know, for the past decade-plus.

So, we're not we're not actually making the deep and profound impact that we need in the communities that are most vulnerable.

So really, the P.O.P. program is specialized to navigate that and navigate those conversations and develop the programs that are innovative, that bring to light, you know, destigmatization and so many other layers that will help impact and end the epidemic by 2030.

And then, of course, our fourth program, which is the newest program, which I started last year, is Philly Pride 365. It was not what I expected to be doing, to say the least.

I kind of struggled with starting it up, just because there was, you know, there's so many delicate conversations which we're here to talk about, which, how should Pride be facilitated, and who should do it? And all those conversations that happen in internal in community and in externally, in community, people are asking, why do they even need it, right?

And I, you know, originally, it was kind of like I, I I wanted to put it down because I it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work.

And I don't think people on the outside, they see the glossiness, the fun, the experience of it all, but internally, like the administrative work, the challenging of the status quo, happens like nano inch or nanometer by nanometer.

It is like, you know, every time I have a funding conversation with someone who wants to sponsor, you know, what's put on the line is my value and my my the value of my labor that I put in.

And I was trying to not personalize that, but it's so true. Like, I'm like, you know, I am asking for you to invest in our programming for our community. I don't take a salary from that particular effort.

So, this is literally operations cost for this event. You know, be that having adequate amounts of port of Porter Johns, or, you know, adequate amounts of like bike racking or whatever barriers that we need to make sure that people are protected and security, you know, all things internal security, so that way all things are buttoned up and taken care of by us.

I mean, it's, it's a lot of work. And then, you know, when you have a conversation with someone and they're just like, well, you know, we think we're only gonna give you $1,000 and I'm just like, but I can see your bulging pocket right there, right?

And what people don't realize is, like, that extra amount, actually, oftentimes, is the difference between whether or not someone sees themselves and is engaged in the programming.

So that way they walk away feeling like they were seen and lifted up and that their needs were met the day of Pride. So, it really is that delicate.

Often Prides, we think about them as like these huge fun parties, but like some people, that is the only day that they will be in contact with a direct resource or service.

It is the only day, and that's not just in Philadelphia, but that's speaking to the Tri-County and the tri-state.

When people are coming from places where they don't have the luxury of multiple orgs and nonprofits and grassroots initiatives to lift them up, they might be sitting there with a, Don't Tread me, sign waving in their tread on me sign waving in their front yard.

Or, you know, a, you know a, I don't know, some other offensive sign waving in the front yard.

So, you know, there's really one of those things where we we have to be tasked with, like building and bridging together those things.

And, you know, I'm happy now that we have these four programs. I'm looking to actually add more, believe it or not because I think it's necessary, right?

I think it's, you know, we can't be stagnant in this community. I think, more than anything, I've recognized this recently.

A lot of conversations in our community that are, you know, like, oh well, the youth, the young, the next generation, Gen Z, they're, they're going to be more progressive than the next and the next and the next and the next.

And it's like, that might be in part true, that very much might be in part true, but also as as implicitly as that is working in our favor, just know that those who don't believe in affirming us, and who don't believe in seeing us, celebrating us and making sure that we resource are working, they're actually working hard to not to prevent us from from having these things and from having equity.

So, it's really a task for us to, like, make sure that those things and messages and activities are are there at the forefront of not just Pride, but also all of our organizing efforts throughout the entire year.

Rob Loveless 

Thank you for sharing that overview about GALAEI and all the work you do. It's definitely critical and inclusive resources that so many in the LGBTQ+ community need.

What Does Pride Mean? (23:24)

Rob Loveless 

And I know you're talking about some of the Pride efforts going on, before we talk a little bit more about some of the Pride divide, let's say in terms of having an inclusive Pride, I did just want to talk a little bit about Pride, what it means to you personally, your own experiences with that.

So, what does Pride mean to you?

Tyrell Brown 

I mean, I get asked this question, and it's like, it happens. It like the definition changes, and what it means to me changes each and every time, just because I think it is like it means so much to so many people.

And I have to hold all those themes while I'm really generating the ideas and things around what I think Pride our event should include. And I think there's an important distinction there, right?

Like, I don't own Pride in Philadelphia, you know, that's not the thing. I am not the, you know, the pinnacle of Pride stuff in Philadelphia. The Pride festival is an event. It is but one event.

It is by no means the only event or the the the the best event, right? That's up for individuals to determine for themselves.

Really like what Pride means to me, it's an opportunity for people to be liberated that day, every single day of the year, right? So, it's something we carry. It's a theme that we carry within ourselves.

But most importantly is not to focus during Pride Month. You know, we have to be very careful with the messages we tell ourselves, right? People are like, oh, this is pride month.

Well, what does that mean? Who told us that it was Pride Month? Why isn't, why isn't it Pride Month, every month, right?

Just the same way that I think about Black History Month, just the way I think about Latinx Heritage Month, or, you know, LGBTQ Heritage Month, or women's history, you name it.

You know, we have to be very careful with how we ingest those messages and how we, you know, really perpetuate sort of that, that idea that things are owned and that someone can take them away, or that someone can take them away from you.

That's not what liberation is about. So, the the event of Pride to me, right, that I'm producing that particular event. I mean, it means a ton to me, like the event itself means a ton to me.

And I think most importantly, it's because of what I've witnessed while, not just while, while organizing the event and all the administrative work that starts well in advance, right?

We're talking November, December last year. I'm already peppering away of these ideas. But it's not just that process. It's also the day of and it's seeing like people, like just enjoying themselves.

Like, I mean, I, like a lot of people, wax poetic about how our community doesn't have spaces and done it or not like, and that's all true, right?

But like, in at these events, it's like, you know, we're at, we're able. We have license.

I, I'm I, I'm happy that I am a shield that, like creates a platform that gives license to individuals that day to do as they feel, to dance as loud as they want, to sing as loud as they want to sing, to dance as hard as they want to dance, to be the the beautiful, you know, individual and unique individual that they want to be in the world, or that they are in the world like I I think that's why it's so important to me, is because for many years, like that was like, not something that I even afforded to myself, was that like I could do and access power that way by actually knowing who I am and doing the work to dig deep into myself to figure out who I am, so that way, I could operate in a powerful and influential way and community, and not just in the LGBT community, I'm talking about in community at large, right?

I said this actually, recently, I was talking with my I was, I was doing an interview on news and and it just occurred to me, because it was Mother's Day coming up, and I was just like, and I was like, oh, my God, I think I got it. Like, why?

And my me and my mother have in the past, like, have, like, everybody's parents, like, we've had our hurdles. You know, I grew up poor, grew up, you know, in unsafe environments from time to time. And, you know, one of the things that I keyed into me the other day, I was just like, Oh my god.

It was like, some of the issues when I was a teenager, when I was rebelling, if you will, I really thought to myself. It was like, oh my god, I think I got it. My mom actually just wanted me to find myself and be authentically me, right?

And to whatever end, right? At some point, your parents give up the ghost. They're just like, like, either I'm going to accept you and affirm you as you are, or you give up the ghost too.

It's like, exactly as I am, or you're you're just not going to be in part of the part of my life. My mother chose to be part of my life.

And you know, I'm lucky in that sense, and when she did like now, I look back and I'm just like, oh, it's because she wanted me to be authentically who I am.

And I think any good parent knows that if their children are authentically who they are and operating in that capacity in the world, then they are absolutely unstoppable, right?

I can absolutely say that right now, I feel like anything I put my mind to I can achieve. And that kind of really speaks to the foregoing process before the event of all that administrative work.

You know, it's a lot, like, it's a lot, but I think, you know, it's a constant challenge of recentering myself and and, you know, humbling myself, but also at the same time, like, you know, trusting myself, trusting my vision, trusting the community, trusting community partners, trusting what they want to see, and believing what they want to see, and believing that to some degree, I can assist with helping them make it come to fruition.

So, it's really like Pride means, Pride means a lot to me right now, and I think it's this year, it's going to mean a lot to so many other people too, even those that may have taken it for granted, because, you know, we are challenged with so many things politically, and you know, we just can't afford to take these kind of moments for granted.

We can't, in my estimation, afford to take moments of togetherness, of connectedness with community. And you know, I recognize that coming out of the pandemic, I was like, we can't not do this because, like, we just came out of a global pandemic where people were kept away from each other for, I mean, I mean, it was it months or years, I don't know.

Like, I think everyone lost their their bearings in regards to time around that.

But you know, you know now, I think even still, now, more than we still, in some degree start, we're starting to take it for granted, a little bit more, and really not going and saying, like, this could all be like, taken away again, and everybody would be siloed into their apartments, and really, you know, not able to engage in in community, to even complain about the things that are not working in our favor, or that aren't, you know, the most supportive you know.

And I think really, it's recognizing that with humility, but also calling upon, you know, our institutions, that the challenge is not to go like, Yeah, you should be good with what you got.

The challenge is, like, they also need to juice these opportunities well as well.

Use these times where we are free and we are together for transformation, for restoration, for forgiveness, for all of the things that you know we don't have the opportunity to express to each other when we're no longer here, or we're no longer to engage together in public.

How Should Pride Be Celebrated? (32:26)

Rob Loveless 

And as we're talking about, you know, Pride, there has been some conversation in recent years, and even discourse within the community, about how Pride should be celebrated.

I'm specifically thinking of one example a few years back where there was some controversy or debate over whether the Pride event should be kink-friendly or family-friendly. And I think that's just kind of one aspect of that conversation of how Pride should be celebrated.

So, I was wondering what your own personal opinion is on that?

Tyrell Brown 

Yeah, like, I mean interesting, like, interesting conversation. But I think we also, too often get caught in an either-or conversation, what's right or what's wrong.

And just like, to me, I'm just like those, those like antiquated ideas about who and how we should celebrate, not just Pride, but anything. I think people do it about birthday parties.

Like, I'm like, don’t go, you know, like, I don't know what to tell folks. And I hate to be that abrupt, but it's just like, don't go.

I've seen even after Pride, I get caught on social media too, like scrolling through TikTok and I see some like influencer going, like, at Pride, it's all about people dancing with their shirt off and sex, and I'm just like, well, that's part of life.

It is. It is Pride. Is just a microcosm of what we experience and enjoy in our lives, both privately and in public throughout the rest of the year.

And, you know, I defy anyone like, this is a festival and we're out in the street dancing, but, like, I've been in many nightclubs where the same activity is happening with cis-folks as well, straight says folks as well, on a random Saturday night, right?

So, you know, I think those ideas of what should and shouldn't happen need to be still dispelled in general.

And you know, as someone who I actually was in the classroom every single day, cultivating programming that was appropriate for young people, as young as three years old, to affirm them as children, not, you know, as in any way possible, trying to indoctrinate them or anything.

But you are a beautiful being on this earth, and you have the universe in front of you, you know, you can be and whatever you want to be, you know, and really affirming that wish to young people, kind of informs how I think about how Pride works.

You know, I had students who had come out as trans at the age of five, you know, not saying those words, I'm trans.

But if, after a while, if you keep repeating to your parents and your physicians and doctors and teachers that you do not want to be referred to as a, you know, as he or boy, or to stand in line with the boys or whatever, or stand in line with the girls.

You know, those like really archaic binary things. You know, after a while you you have to develop your programming around what the reality of this is, and the reality of Pride is this.

Number one, I don't make the rules here, right? I don't get to say, keep your shirt on over there, like it'd be ridiculous anyway. it's like 90 degrees. It's summertime. But you know, I don't get to say that.

What I do get to say, though, and lend to this conversation around what should and shouldn't happen at Pride is that what we've done at Pride is we've developed specific affinity spaces, right?

So, we have a Youth and Family Zone that's expansive. In the Youth and Family Zone, there's bounce houses, there's food, there's you know crafts, art, there's, you know, its own little performance stage.

We had a youth drag show last year. You know, it's really its own programming right there, and we use our partners and queer-serving organizations to facilitate that, right? We also have a sober zone, right?

So, people that don't want to drink or that are living sober lives. And, you know, I was just talking with an activity group called the Phoenix, and they're amazing.

And one of the things that they do for their sober programming is like, you only have to be sober or not to have had a drink or a substance. I can't remember the exact love, but it's a specific hour period of time before there are events to be considered sober for the event, right?

And it's really a way of like them, using these activities to really teach people into sobriety in ways that are more innovative than only going through abstinence, right?

Like, how do you live up into the kind of life that you want to live, and do that within a symbiotic nature, without having alcohol or having, you know, any other substances involved?

And I really think it's a very progressive way of looking at it. But, yeah, that's like another affinity space. There's also our decompression zone, like, that's a separate zone for people with seen and unseen disabilities.

This year, I think we're going to have, like, a sensory Dance Party, which is really exciting. You know, you get the headphones and everyone gets to turn to a channel and jam out.

We have a sporting zone. There's where there's activities for grown-ups to, like, have fun. There's, we have a sapphic space.

It's the first time we're having a sapphic space at Pride, which, you know, I think is really revolutionary in the sense that, like, how many times do you see, like, the that Prides are centered and only lift up, or, you know, basically says gender, white men and particularly those with, like, pretty privilege, right?

So, you have, you know this person who's six-two, you know the quintessential Ken doll, and that's the person that's born a flyer, right?

And that person is saying, you need to come here to see me, and then everyone else is cut out of the conversation.

Well, we kind of flip that on its head, because we know like you're going to come, we want you to come, but also, we want to prioritize the voices and the art that actually informs our culture.

You know, like we cast aside, you know, Black trans women in so many areas of our lives, especially when it comes to resources, and it's like they create the art, the terms, the the the the language that we often use in regular conversation, and they create the art, the the drag, the performances, like all of the things that we love and enjoy.

And it's like we're celebrating that day, and we're we're compensating them, you know, equity equitably for it.

And I think that's another aspect to this is like, instead of people, if I was to lend advice to people, instead of focusing on what Pride is or isn't or should or shouldn't be.

Let's talk about what it can be, right, and what it can be is a space that holds family youth and young adult services that's more family-centered, and also our, you know, kink spaces that are fun and engaging, that are consent driven for grown-ups.

We also have Legacy Lane, which is a fold to our elders and also leaders that are presently still with us. And we have Vice so Vice Alley is actually and I defy anyone to tell me that it shouldn't be at Pride because my dear friend, Maso, and I was my child.

They, they were my child in community. And they the first year that I was sort of the wizard behind, sort of turning the wheels on Pride. They were one of my touchstones.

And like getting things rolling, and, you know, they're no longer with us. And one of the programs that they cultivated at one of our local bars here in Philadelphia, Bike Stop, Vice, it's still going.

And like, they were a keystone in making that happen, and doing it in a way that I think, really brought in every letter of the alphabet suit that is our community, right?

And did it in such a really immersive way that it still exists, even when they're not there, and even when Vice isn't happening.

There's people that are, you know, that are engaged with that community space at the Bike Stop that maybe year, 10 years ago, I would have never guessed or imagined, but now this is a home to so many people who enjoy, you know, queerness and alternative lifestyle inside of the queer community nightlife performers, everyone from you know, the people that you will see on a drag stage to people that you would see you know, you know, being flogged, right?

So, there's like it's and it's a place for everyone to come together and enjoy community. That doesn't necessarily mean that, you know, you walk in and it's like the red light special.

Sometimes it is just us hanging out and having a beer, right?

And, you know, even on the in the on Pride itself, the day itself, it's like, sometimes it's just being in front of each other in community with people that have shared interest, right?

And, you know, so saying, like, oh, well, it needs to be more family-centered. Well, you know, I taught children for many years, and I love children, but I also love going home from them.

I don't really want children for myself right now. I think my partner would say otherwise, they've fallen over babies every time we're, like, walking in public somewhere.

But for me, I'm like, not right now anyway, I don't really see myself having a child.

And, like, I like to go to spaces where, you know, I'm able to be a grown-up with other grown-ups in whatever capacity that is necessary.

So that is, like, if I'm going to the sober space, that's not a youth and family space, this is so that's a space for grown-ups who are living sober lives.

We're not just casting people who are living sober lives and saying, like, well, go with the family and the youth programming. It's like, no, you're a grown-up up and you deserve to hang around grown-ups.

And you know, you know this conversation, I think, like I said, on what Pride should or shouldn't be, it's such a false floor way of looking at Pride, because Pride should be, ultimately, every queer or trans person dream, right?

And that means that we have to share the stage with everyone, and it means you might have to just stand on your square alone, or you might have to share your square because you have likenesses of other people.

But as long as you're there to love, lift up, support, and affirm other people, you should be able to have a voice in making Pride, which you want, even if it's not at the festival, because I when I say like, like it or or don't or don't come, it's not to say, you know, just sit at home and like, watch Netflix.

But I guess if that's Pride to you, you should do that, right? But I know many people that want a green space for Pride. They want Pride in a space that you know, is restorative in that fashion.

And if you want it during Pride Month, there's literally 30 other days to create that on, if you wanted any other time throughout the summer of the year, dirt.

We are one of the most creative demographics in the world, in world history. We are, there is no reason why we should be looking at other people's events and and, you know, and saying that it should fit within my rubric or belief of what is necessary, as long as people are walking away with joy resource and being restored and.

Some way, form, or fashion, like I think we should be applauding each other for those efforts.

Rob Loveless 

The work you're doing is great to create an inclusive Pride experience for everyone. You talked about, you know, having a space for our LGBTQ+ elders, those who are sober, those who, you know, want to have a youth center.

Tyrell’s First Pride (45:16)

Rob Loveless 

And so, I'm wondering, with all those initiatives in place, do you remember the first Pride you attended?

Not with the organization, but you know yourself, individually, and what you saw there and how it impacted your drive for wanting to create an inclusive place for your future Prides.

Tyrell Brown 

Yeah, I mean, the first Pride that I went to, it was like, I mean maybe, like '99 maybe, I don't know, but it wasn't a huge deal into me, in that sense, just because, like, I was, like, overwhelmed.

I didn't I was like, where do I go? Where do I turn? And, you know, was really a child overwhelmed by what was going on. I remember it was really hot, and we were in this random parking lot down by, like, Delaware Avenue.

It was like, hot that day. I remember like, wanting to, like, charge out there, because I was with some friends, I was going to take my shirt off.

And I remember being like, it is so hot, like, I'm putting my it's too hot to have my shirt off, right? I need, like, some shade on my actual skin and body.

And so, it was like, it wasn't, it wasn't like, so fun, as much as it was like I was overwhelmed. So, I don't even really remember, you know how. I just remember it was hot, right?

And then I think the first meaningful Pride that I went to and which I was like, wow, I'm this is really great, was actually not here in Philadelphia, it was in Montreal. And I went there.

I think it was like 2011 for World Pride, and it was the most phenomenal like experience I have ever had. Like, I mean, and this isn't just like, oh, you know, because all of them autumn boys up there from Canada, like, from, you know, like, with, with their, I don't know where's the Canadian, the Canadian suit, or whatever, where it's like, you know, damn it, on denim on the top, denim on the bottom. No, it's, it's the Canadian tuxedo. That's what it is.

But no, it was actually, I think, more than anything, it's like it was such an immersive Pride, like everyone could walk together in the parade.

They that year, they didn't have like these, like barriers up that are like, this is the parade, and you can't be part of it, you know? You have to be a spectator on the day of Pride, right?

That, to me, just it really kind of transformed the way I thought about Pride. Was like, no, people shouldn't be spectating on Pride. It's yours. Enjoy it, right?

And that means not just at our event, but like, you know, if you're like, on Pride Day, I'm going to the zoo, you know, or I'm just having a cookout in my backyard with some friends over, like, I celebrate you, celebrating that.

Because, truth be told, if like, I wasn't in this seat of you know, called into action to do this, I might spin by your house and grab a plate, like, like, I might spin your block and grab a plate at your at your little block party, or your, you know, your picnic somewhere, like, who made the potato salad, right?

But you know, I think you know, you know, that's really what informed is, like watching that in Montreal, and really seeing the way that their city is even set up, like the way their neighborhood is set up on St. Catherine.

Like every front of each bar has a porch to it, and it's like, I mean, you gotta go. I'm just gonna say this, you gotta go, right?

And I remember, ironically, I was sitting at this bar up there called the Black Eagle, and I was sitting there having a beer, and I look up and randomly, like, the owners actually of the Bike Stop at the time were like, they come, like, walking in and be like, look at each other, like, what are you doing here? Like, on a random Thursday night before Pride.

So, it was like, that was really what I think inspired my ideas of, like, what Pride should look like and how it should operate. I think the other layers to it of, like different affinity spaces and things like that, I think, like, really it was kind of like it was when I sat down with the original plans I had put together in 2022 and it was really kind of in an emergency situation, like we were, like we said to the city, we're going to do this, and we don't have plans.

So, I kind of drafted a bunch of different ways that it could skeletons of how it could go, and then me and my my dearly departed friend Maso kind of sat down and I was like, we should have this space, and we could have a space that says this and says that, what do we call it?

What do we call this, what would we call that? And we really kind of peppered through those ideas together and came up with like titles for things, but we still, at that point, it was the first time I ever did anything that big, so I didn't know how it was going to pan out or facilitate.

And I think the first year was like, it was like getting on the bike. The first year it wasn't even riding it, which is like, just try to stand upright on your bicycle, or stand up on skates, right? And we did.

We stood up on skates. And it was, it was phenomenal. I think they said that we had doubled the typical attendance at Pride in Philadelphia from what was an average of like 20,000, 22,000 to an upwards of almost 50,000 people. And that was that first year.

And then last year, though, it was also sort of unexpected and not anticipated. I didn't really anticipate that I was going to be doing Pride again.

And I think were it not for me having conversations with a couple of elders in our community that I went to and consulted, and I was just like, frankly, I'm afraid. Like, I like, I'm afraid of doing this. It's a big deal.

It's a lot of responsibility, and one elder in particular, and if they listen to this, they'll be like, Yep, I remember I said that, is, they were like, you know, stop. They just flatly told me, stop being afraid.

You just got to stop being afraid. You know, if I was afraid of what people thought or how people were going to receive me with everything that I did, then I probably wouldn't have done anything in my life. But I've created things out of nothing because I believed in myself, and I just wasn't afraid.

If you have good intentions and your heart is in the right place, people are going to be resourced, serviced, and people are going to walk away better having been at your event or invite and engage with you than if they had not been.

And then another elder, basically was, was just like, you know, if you want to do it, then do it. Does it, does it call to you?

Does it seem like you're in the right space and in the right place when you're doing that? If that's the case, then you should do it.

And you know, so, like a lot of the stuff, it's like through experiences, but also, you know, through past experiences.

But more and more, it's like learning day by day, what, what Pride like feels like in new ways of like and and kind of integrating, trying to integrate that like young queer person into these things because I'm a little bit older now I'm 42 years old.

So, I mean, my younger brother is 25 and he thinks I'm corny, and I, I would tend to agree with him. So, so, but, um, you know, like now, really thinking through and kind of trying to bring to life some of the things that I missed out on.

But also, I just realized this the other day. I was like, you know, I grew up in, you know, in the going out with friends and things like that, partying, bar hopping, all those fun things that you do when you're 20 or maybe they're not fun to you, right?

And I was like, I, but they were formative for me and and I, I, I hope that young people have the opportunity to do that too, you know?

I want that for young people, especially in Philadelphia and the Tri-County. I want people to look at, you know, the spaces that I inhabited, and not just in the Gayborhood, but all over Philadelphia, and really see opportunities for themselves to, you know, use them as apparatuses to bounce themselves off of and grow bigger and better and stronger and bigger institutions and bigger Prides and things like that in the future, once I'm long gone, you know.

So, they're very formative things and I think, you know, that's really kind of, you know, like, what I'm what I'm ultimately hoping that Pride does coming out of this.

The Importance of Truly Inclusive Pride Celebrations (54:27)

Rob Loveless 

Can you tell us why a truly inclusive Pride is so important, especially as it relates to the intersectionality of identities within the LGBTQ+ community?

Tyrell Brown 

You know, when people see themselves in something, you know, they don't just like engage with it, but they see themselves in it, and they're more apt to actually.

Like for me, just because we do direct services every day and care center, I tend to look at it through that lens, right? You know, if I'm looking like, traditionally, in Philadelphia, when I would look at Pride, I didn't see myself in Pride.

And it wasn't that I didn't go. I just didn't see myself in it, right? And, you know, I don't think that's a disparaging comment. I think that's just an honest assessment of the terrain of the times, right?

You know what we did in community, typically, not just within our community here in Philadelphia, but in advertising on TV, we tend to tell stories of, you know, you know, homonormativity, right?

Of like, what it's like Queer as Folk was, like, focused around that. What does gay life look like for these two, you know, well-resourced, talented, attractive on someone's scale, what did these forces, white men with privilege do with their lives as gay people, right?

And it's like, not that we didn't watch it. Like I watched it. It was the first time that I actually saw two men on TV kiss, right? But like, you know, it was looking at that and and like, I still didn't see myself in it, right?

And we need events that tell our whole stories and that create platforms for people to tell their story through art.

And I think, you know, having a truly inclusive Pride loses that if you or we lose having a truly inclusive Pride and one that's all-encompassing, that provides that implicit resource of people feeling affirmed and people getting resourced because that person is not coming to Pride if you don't speak to them.

You know, and if you don't tell them and invite people to come, we say Pride, right? This, and we can add as many letters to the acronym, as we want to.

The problem is, is that if you do not invite people into the fold, then they won't come, or they're less likely to come. And I think it's important to front face that even if the engagement isn't at the height level.

Too many times, I think, not just in our own community, but in the world, we're looking for, you know, to justify investing in something when it's already there, rather than front-loading that and, and, you know, doing that, if you build it, it will come kind of scenario, and I think that's what we're tasked with.

It like is really, you know, in my own intersectionality and in my own intersectional identities, is really kind of making sure that those themes are centered in there because otherwise, what the hell am I doing producing it if it's not for people like me or that share my experiences like you know?

And that's also not just talking about, you know, our identities as queer people, but also, you know, socioeconomic factors too.

Like, if Pride isn't free and it doesn't include spaces for people that don't have money and resources, then what are we doing?

You know, especially as one of the poorest demographics in globally, but especially in our country. Like, what are we saying to people if we're saying you have to pay 20 bucks to get in just to be around other queer people? Like, just, like, just to be in community with other people?

You know, like, like, to some degree things have to cost money. Like, you know, I can't front-load the cost for everything.

I'm one individual, and I grew up poor too, like, it's hard, like, it's hard, but like, I'll be damned if somebody on the festival ground that day doesn't come up to me and go, like, hey, like, my friend doesn't have money, right? Can you give them a burger?

I mean, we do things like, we have free snacks throughout the day, but for more substantial things, I've done it before, like, where I've walked people up the street to Walgreens, and been like, here, like, grab what you need.

You know where someone is, like, my friend needs an Uber home, randomly on the festival ground of thousands and thousands of people.

And I'm just like, okay, very quickly here I'm going to Venmo you. Go home. Or I call them Uber for my phone. Like, like, I live out on Pride Day what I believe in, and I think more people in our community need to do that, rather than focusing on whether or not it aligns or fits within their vision.

It's show up that day in the way that you believe should be shown up that day. If you want family that day, and you believe it should be youth and family-centered, then you know, I suggest you grab yourself and your beliefs and go and stand at a table and volunteer your time with one of the youth-serving organizations that does that hard work 365 days a year.

The kind of work that you won't do, but you'll lend your opinion about, right? If you say to yourself like you know, Pride should include more, you know, community engagement, then there are apparatuses to do that.

You can reach out to me, but you can also reach out to any number of the grassroots organizations that are tabling at Pride.

And really, you can also start to think about ways that you can create and bring into the world and into the universe your idea of what Pride is because people need to hear from you. People need to hear that.

Heartfelt Pride Moments (1:00:11)

Rob Loveless 

Definitely. And can you tell us some special experiences that you hold near and dear to your heart through working at Pride and attending Pride?

Tyrell Brown 

Yeah, I mean through, through the production of Pride. Like, since I've been, you know, the program director for Pride, there's, like, many ways that I look at that, like, there's, you know, the internal way where I've seen, like our staff at GALAEI really step into itself and step into power around what Pride means to them, right?

Previously, they may, in some ways, were not engaged with Pride, right? Lived in neighborhoods from around the city, and were like, I'm not going downtown for Pride.

And it was an optional thing, and now it's something that they want to be part of. And whether or not that's actually, you know, working the day of, or even having the option to just enjoy it for themselves, which I offer for them as well now.

You know, seeing why Pride is important to them is like inspiring, and seeing like, the joy that they take out of, like, being part of something that's bigger than themselves, like, and I think that's one of the things internally that I've witnessed, and I'm really proud of.

Um, I think the other, you know, just, you know, there's, I shared the thing about, you know, you know, one of my mentors, and shared also about, you know, a stranger.

But I like, I mean, I mean, wow, like the first year, I'll never forget, there was a, there was two young people, and someone had a seizure, and, you know, the gurney was coming through, there was a nurse giving CPR.

And I look over and I see these two young people, like sobbing, like clearly afraid of what they were witnessing. And I was like, Can I like, like, as a Can you come with me?

And do you feel safe coming with me? I kind of use my training as, like a teacher to do this, right? So, I was like, you know, do you feel safe coming with me?

I'm one of the organizers here. Showed my badge. I want you to like, you know, how old are you? I asked them a few questions, and I was like, I'm just going to take you over to this resource tent over here, you know, and I was like, where are your grown-ups at? Are they, are they here?

And they're like, no, they left us here, and they went home early. And I was like, and they're like, and we're lost. And I was like, well, you know, are you from Philadelphia?

And they're like, Yeah, but they were from Germantown, and which is, like, not geographically close to Center City. And I was like, you know, do you know how to get home, like, on the train?

And they're like, from here, no. So, I was like, okay, so I took them, and what we have is in the pop wellness section, we have, you know, activations there with on-site therapy and case workers and so on.

So, I was like, do you feel comfortable, you know, talking to this person, and they're like, can you just sit with us? And I was like, yeah. So, I sat there and held their hands, and they cried. I got them water.

And then I was like, have you all eaten? And which is, like, the key to so many people's hearts. It's the key to mine, right? It's like, if, you know, get me a get me a bag of Doritos.

And I'm like, I'm like, I'm putty in your hands. But, you know, I was like, no, have you eaten?

And they were like, you know, no. I was like, okay, well, come with me. And so, I, like, turned my walkie off, let everyone always know I was leaving the festival ground, and took them into Walgreens.

And I was just like, you know, here, you know, I want you to grab, you know, what you need. And and they're like, really? And I was just like, yeah, just grab what you need and pay for it.

And their phones had died. So, I was like, you know, I asked the guy behind the counter to charge one of their phones. We're calling one of their parents, but they weren't answering.

So, I was like, I need you to give me your address, so that way I can send you home, both home in an Uber. And so, they, you know, got their stuff. I paid for it, and then we sat in the park just right there, off of where Jefferson's campus is.

Sat right there. I called them an Uber and got them into the car, and I was like, you know, this is my number. I need you to call me when you get home.

And you know, the they got home, and I was like, I was worried, actually, but it was so busy for the rest of the day that I didn't have a chance.

But the the next day, I got a call, and it was one of their parents, and they were like, Oh my God. Like, thank you so much for taking care of my babies.

And, you know, we and they were, they were explained like, no, we didn't abandon them or leave them. We actually, they said that they would be okay there.

But it was just one of those things where this 16 and 17-year-old were overwhelmed with the size of the crowd, all of these busy things going on, and suddenly now you're disoriented and you don't know how to get out nor get home, and your phone dies.

It's like getting lost in a mall prior to when we had cell phones, right? You know when it's like, you're looking at the star and it says you're here, and you're like, where is here?

But you know this, it was one of those moments that I was just like, this is why it's like, important, because those two young queer people, literally that day for the first time, got what it felt like to be part of a community that creates a safety net and closes the loop on safety for them, right?

They may not have ever felt that before. I don't know if they have or haven't, but I do know, like that day, that's the feeling that I got, was that that would, that might have, that might have been one of the first opportunities right there.

And, you know, it was like such a tender moment. That first year, I mean, I cried after Pride so hard because it was a lot of work.

And it was like, throwing a birthday party and in and everyone leaves with you, with the dishes, right? And it was like what are those feelings?

But also, the beauty of it, I mean, it was so humbling, like the the entire immersive experience, you know?

That year, last year, during National Coming Out Day, and this coming year, I can feel it building it here is that, like, right afterwards, it's so immense and so humbling.

The power of so many people being together in one space, even without intention.

It's very humbling. And to be, you know, one of the cornerstones and making sure that that happens annually is like it's such a delicate thing and at the same time powerful.

So, yeah, you know, those are some of the small but there's so many too. I mean, I could go forever telling these intricate stories of like, I saw this person get sneakers at the prevention needs fashion who had a tent there, and when they found out that they were free, they like, burst, this grown, you know, person, like, broke into tears.

They were like, six-four, like, big old person. And they were like, like, they didn't believe that these brand new, you know, kicks were free so and you know those things.

I'm naming the ones that I see, but like they happened all over the festive run. They happen, the kindness that's shown. Oh my god, like people are just smiling.

I'm like, everybody put their cattiness card aside, like the shade and the read was like, left the day before, and everyone enjoys themselves, and then by the evening hours, kind of like, back, but like, but at least for the day in the middle of the sun, we get to enjoy that.

So yeah.

Rob Loveless 

That's amazing. I mean, we definitely need more kindness in the world, so it's great to hear those stories, and knowing that there's countless more that occur at Pride.

Tyrell Brown 

Yeah.

Corporate Involvement in Pride (1:08:44)

Rob Loveless 

More recently, as we talk about Pride, we see corporations displaying their rainbows, changing their social icons to Rainbow, and love is love throughout the month of June.

Maybe they'll even put a sign-up or sponsor something at a parade, but July 1 comes, and usually they're gone.

So, there's been a lot of conversation around, you know, corporate greed, Rainbow capitalism, Rainbow washing, pinkwashing.

So, I was wondering, what role, if any, do you believe corporations and businesses should play in supporting Pride celebrations, and how can they do so authentically?

Tyrell Brown 

You know, it's a difficult question, because, you know, we live in a world of institutionalized capitalism, and I think people need to understand that, right?

You know, we're not all agreeing tomorrow to not pay our taxes. We're also not agreeing tomorrow to not go shop at Target, right?

I think we all understand the necessity of what institutionalized, the scarcity, I should say, of what institutionalized capitalism forces you to do, and in like, in our own small way, the only thing that I can do in this moment, at least.

Others might have more revolutionary ideas of what can be done. But for me, you know. Is like, how do we build in the equity factor here?

Because we have queer people, queer and trans people working at these institutions too, that are toiling away and oftentimes being erased by their employers or not being affirmed by their employers.

And it's like, well, I also don't want to participate in that, either by saying that you can't lift up yourself, and what you do every single day at on Pride Day, right, in some way, shape or form.

You know, so, you know, I think really, what they can do is invest more money into their employee resource groups that are LGBTQ centered.

And really, through that, those resource groups are able to determine equitably how they should be delineating those funds and giving them out to the community, not just for Pride because I think, you know, we want to make sure also that, like, you know, people aren't focusing all their dollars and throwing them into one bucket, when, throughout the rest of the year, people need resources and services as well.

And, you know, I think a better way, and what we've tried to do, is really make sure that the there's an understanding that, like, we're not selling in front facing what your corporation is doing, right?

But what we are doing is we're accepting your dollars to ensure that there are resources given to the most marginalized in our community, so using Pride, again as a valve to make sure that the funding is there to support the people on the festival ground that day, but also thereafter, if there, if there's money left over because we know there's always going to be a need, right?

I also, like, you know, there's the conversation about elite capture, right?

I don't know if you've ever heard of this, but it's like how imperialism and capitalism takes art, takes your gifts and really immediately funnels them into into institutions and mechanisms that, in some case, can be harmful and archaic, but ultimately that sort of perpetuate a system that is unsustainable, right?

And it's very difficult, I think, to straddle that line of like, you know, how do we take down these these systems, while also making sure that people are resourced at the same time?

You know, if someone comes to me tomorrow and they need housing by hook or crook, I'm going to make sure that that person has a roof over their head as a Black trans woman.

Like I'm going by hook or crook, I'm going to make it happen. You know, if that means coming out of my personal funds, which you know, come from, you know, the government, or come from all these other institutions like that, could be deemed problematic as well.

I'm going to make sure that you don't rest your head on a cinder block tonight, but that you actually have a nice, soft bed that's safe in a place that's affirming for yourself, like I'm going to do that to the best of my ability every single day, and especially on Pride Day.

Especially on Pride Day. That's how I look at it when it comes to corporations, but like, you know, you know, I named myself as, like, being anti-capitalist, but knowing that, like, you know, when I was younger, I was like, you know, burn it down, right?

You know, I was all about it, and not even that I'm, that's not still there. But I think I approach things with the whole tool belt now, and just not just only with the sledgehammer.

I think there's a time for the sledgehammer. And if everybody's willing to pick theirs up right now, then let's go right? But if you know you're not going to use me as the shield for that, right?

I don't want to be a martyr for the cause. I also want to be here, you know, when we're able to resource people in an equitable way, I want to be here to witness how things are transforming.

I want to be here for those things, and I want to be here to reap the benefits of it too. Because, you know, I am surviving this, you know, capitalist hellscape, just like everybody else is, you know?

I've dealt with predatory employers, you name it. And I think it's important, really, also in those conversations, that we make sure to, like, humanize the people that are actually producing these things because I have to pay taxes too.

I have to go home, have a partner who I have to take care of, I have, you know, a family, and an entire network that extends outside of just the Pride event, but people that are, you know, not even necessarily personal friends, but some of them are just community members, clients of the organization, that are like, hey, I need 20 bucks to pay for my cell phone, like, or do whatever it is because things cost money.

And I think that's also an undergirding factor is like, things cost money, and it's unfortunate. You know, we don't.

I wish that we could barter and trade our way through an equitable Pride where everyone was able to lift things up.

But unfortunately, I'm tasked with raising thousands and thousands of dollars just to make sure that there's adequate enough bathrooms on the festival ground, right?

Or just to make sure, like I said, like, you know, do we want stages, you know, do I want to lift up a Black trans performer and make sure that they're adequately paid and compensated?

Absolutely, and I can't do that personally by just begging, you know, small institutions or, and I've offered this too. It's like, hey, if people want a phone bank. I used to do that for Sanders' campaign.

I've done it for many other, many other political campaigns. Like, yeah, let's get to going. But I also don't want us to pay for Pride on the front end or at the gate.

Like, and it doesn't seem realistic for me to go like, okay, well, Pride is free to get in the gate. But I'm also going to call you, Rob, and say, hi, Rob, would you like to donate $20 a day to Pride?

And you're just like, oh, I should have just paid $20 at the gate to get in, right? So, yeah, there's, I think there's a lot of, it's a robust conversation that I think needs to keep happening.

And I also think, you know, in the undoing of all things, right, I understand that to some degree, in this universe, some things are temporary, right?

And as we are, you know, evolving or refinding ways to communicate with each other more directly, you know, some things are going to ultimately become useless, right?

You know, that's just what's going to happen as things Transform and move in different directions.

And I don't have control over that, but with the time that I have now, I humbly am just accepting what I've been called in to do.

And I think, you know, grace given, you know, latitude given, I try to do it in the most equitable way as possible.

And I think any other Pride organizer around the country, I can't speak for them, but if they're not doing it that way, I think they probably need to think about it right?

Especially some of the bigger Prides, the smaller Prides, smaller municipalities, it's a lot easier to kind of, you know, get around the sponsorship costs because, you know, the city or the whatever municipality isn't charging as much.

But, you know, things are expensive, even just for the permits. And oftentimes I've come like, I paid out of pocket, you know, for many of the other tangential things that people don't see.

Like even just getting making sure my staff, which who are all queer and trans, who are all Black and Brown, like, making sure that they have like, you know, Ubers to get to and from, you know, this meeting or that meeting, or, excuse me, making sure that they have, like, a meal because they don't have their food, they don't have food for the evening during the Pride weekend, right?

You know, so a lot of and also making sure that they have a good time too because when you don't have money in your pocket, it sucks to be at Pride.

So, and I want to make sure that also throughout that weekend, even if they're working the day of, that they have those things, and sometimes it's not set up that way when you know, you know Pay Day is on the first and so is Red Day, right?

So, so it's like, also sometimes I come out of pocket and go in the red for those things too. Like I said, you, you risk, you risk what you can, you know?

And I think that's part of, I mean, I guess what I was called in to do here for this. So, I just try to do my best.

The Future of Pride Celebrations (1:19:18)

Rob Loveless 

And what would you like to see in future Pride celebrations?

Tyrell Brown 

Really, in a dream world? I mean, I mean geographically speaking, in Philadelphia, in a dream world, I would like to, I would like for Pride to continue to expand and for to take Broad Street like, I think that would be like, just absolutely epic, epic.

And I would like to see more institutions that aren't necessarily, that aren't corporations, get involved. You know, like some of our houses of art and influence, the symphony house, you name it, right, all of these big odes to, you know, art and culture in Philadelphia, I would like to see them more involved in a substantial way, lifting up not just their ERGs, but really like engaging in the performance value and adding art and beauty to the event. I would like to see, I would like to see more stages for more people to perform.

I would like to have more money into it so that I could really compensate, you know, the people that are helping to develop this, including myself, um, like, I would like to see that, you know, in a way, you know, that, you know, actually, like, validates the kind of labor we put in in this state that we're in in this world, right?

You know, like, I for the three years that I've never taken a salary from this. Like I said, I've gone in the red many times. And you know why it's a labor of love.

I'm like, you know, I'm tab in my pocket right now, like, jeez, like, and I and I really want there to be a not just for me, but for future generations, for there to be something that's in place there, so that these events exist sustainably and now, so, so that we're not tasked with, like, running around with our heads cut off, seeking, you know, donations and finances in order to make them go but really, so that they can exist sustainably and untethered from, you know, from Like a corporate heartbeat, right?

They need to be sustainably resourced, even if that's part of the mechanism. But that the stake in that is not that you get to claim it as your own right?

Not pink-washing corporations or rainbow-washing corporations, but instead them actually investing in us on the front end, because we are their staff. We are the people that make their systems go.

And ultimately, instead of the pizza party, the payback is this, right?

The payback is when you actually give to foundations and give to into nonprofits. You give to charity, you give to directly to people in a restorative manner, in order to be able to, like, do what they will and liberate themselves, rather than kind of going through all these metrics to kind of skirt around there and then take credit for what's being done.

You know, I remember the first, you know, like the Target Pride T-shirts, and don't even get me started on that Juneteenth ice cream a couple years ago that was like, what? Excuse my language, what the fuck?

Like, it was like, it was crazy. I was like, what is that? Right? But, you know, I think we've come to a time where, like, those conversations, people are tired of having those conversations.

Y'all already know better. We know you know better. You know you know better too. Like so it really now it's just like, well, you know, what's the restorative measure here? What does that look like?

And, you know, I think that might look different to everyone, and it's up to each individual to determine, and then collectively as a community, we can have that conversation and lift up those demands to other folks.

But you know, right now, with one event, you know, and you know, just, I guess, a few thousand voices that are saying that they enjoy it.

To say the least, not a few thousand is last year, it was like 60,000 pat myself and back, right? But, you know, with that many people that are saying they enjoy it, and some people saying jeez, like this was the best Pride ever.

I'll never forget, like, there was like a 70-year-old dude walking down Locust Street, and like, he was like, did you all create this? I still have my T-shirt on, my walkie. Did you all create this?

And a couple of the staff, former staff here, will remember this. And we were like, yeah. He was like, and his eyes welled with tears, and he was like, it was the most beautiful thing I've ever seen.

And I was like, Oh my god. That was, like, amazing, like, this queer elder in community, and I heard that also from the mentor that said to me, like, he would probably be annoyed if I mentioned his name, but I'm going to, Jose DeMarco, who said to me, you know, if you, if it's calling from you do it right?

But when he, one of the things he told me afterwards was like it was the most beautiful thing he'd ever seen, and that, that, to me, is what counts. It's, it's what counts.

It's not just the people that are close to you that say that, but also people that inspire you, and also strangers that that walk away calling like, wow, that was a pinnacle moment in my life.

So, so yeah, I hope that more more things, more resources, or resources are pulled in with last asked being pulled out and that we're able to create a wider valve for more resources to reach, you know, the hands of people that are more marginalized than ourselves.

How to Ensure Pride is Inclusive (1:25:31)

Rob Loveless 

And I think there are a lot of people who, you know, hear these conversations and agree that, yeah, we need to make sure Pride is more accessible, more inclusive.

But just them agreeing isn't enough. There needs to be an action taken there.

So, what are some steps we can all collectively, as a community, take to make sure we're building an inclusive Pride for all?

Tyrell Brown 

You know, community, community is a funny word, right? But I think, meaningfully, you know, and sincerely engaging in conversations with people, and not just those that agree with you, right?

You know, in that first year that I was, you know, engaged in, you know, co-producing this event, there was a lot of different ideas of what Pride should be, shouldn't be. There's a lot of tension in that space.

And you know, I think you know that also, in part, informed how I think about Pride now too because I'm trying my best. I don't know if I'm succeeding or not.

I think that's up for other people to determine, but trying my best to like include and meet up, meet up to the factors that we all, you know, really kind of believe that new Pride should be, you know, should be centered around.

And, you know, but I think a meaningful way to engage that going forward is probably like, with some sort of, like, first of all at the event is having people to be able to celebrate their beliefs or put them into a formulaic form to get information back to you, right?

So that's not just some random person complaining on a TikTok or a Reel but also them being able to reach out directly to the organization to share their experiences on and have a conversation about it.

But on the front end, I think, like, you know, sort of like a community, community engagement, you know, idea around how, you know, Community Action Committees and things like that, to make, to make sure that we're on stack with, with most, with what's emerging in our community, right?

No one of the benefits of producing Pride is that, in part, we are the community that we serve, right?

You know, I can't speak for every, every metric of diversity, but like you know, and each individual has their own spirit experience and inlet to what Pride means to them or doesn't mean anything to them, right?

But I think we do here is we engage as many partners as possible and many organizations as possible. We engage as many community opinions as possible, at least, you know, as like I said, as much as possible because it's a lot of heavy work.

You know, capturing that those those ideas and opinions, and putting them to something that people believe, that they see themselves in, is very difficult.

Um, especially when people's ideas might exist outside of the realm of what's even, you know, institutionally possible, at least in this event, which is why I kind of lean on, say, like having people, you know, if you don't feel like you have a voice in Pride, right?

You know, playing tug of war, does no one any good.

We just pull the rope back and forth, you know, but it's let go of the rope and, you know, liberate yourself and create and create be in a space of creation because there is someone here in the world that needs what you are going to create, even if it's not thousands of people, it might just be 10 other people, whatever.

It might be thousands of people. But they might want that event that is in Wissahickon Park, you know, they might want that event that is, you know, a basement party, like a throwback dollar party.

They might want that event that's in Clark Park or in Cobbs Creek. They might want that and need that to be created.

They don't know how, and they don't know that somebody else agrees with them, and it's not in competition with me to do that. The more the merrier. And I think that's what Pride is about.

It's about people staying in a space of creation, putting together their labor and work behind their wishes and their beliefs, and really making see the kind of community that they want and believe that is necessary.

And that means like, hey, if you're going to build a Pride commune, I like, I applaud that, right? You know, I'll try to do my best to get resources and food over to you, like, whatever it is that you think is radical that's going to push the edge, that's going to get people to see, affirm, and lift up people that are marginalized on these days, during these hours, it's only seven hours, right?

It's not even a day. It's seven hours out of a year, right? You know if, if that's what you want to do, I celebrate you celebrating that and and I think the spirit of it, of Pride, you know, being for at least for me, being one that's born out of love and appreciation and affirmation and celebration, it doesn't allot me a lot of space to be resentful towards how other people want to enjoy their Pride Day.

You know, like I think I shared earlier, someone had said it was on a TikTok and the guy was like, there's so much sex at Pride, right? And he was, like, on a TikTok with his shirt off too.

It was like, come on, right? He was thirst trapping, on, on, on, about, like, too much sex, and talking about how it's too much and virtue signaling to the high heavens.

Like, I mean, it was like Sunday afternoon, High Noon church, and it I was watching this TikTok on, like a Wednesday evening, right? And like he was saying that.

And it like occurred to me, it was, like, that's, that's just so the antithesis of what, at least I historically believe that Pride was about. Pride to me was about take your shirt off if you want to take your shirt off.

Dance, if you want to dance. You don't know how to sing, so what? Go sing, right? You know, it was about that, and really having a platform that day to say what you feel, cry out if need be.

Do whatever it is that day that you do not feel liberated any other day to do and do it safely, do it in support of others.

You know, you know, it's celebrating Pride isn't necessarily ego-driven thing. It's symbiotic, right? So, it's, like, in part, celebrate yourself. Lift up.

Sing if you want to sing, if you want to be this, if you want to like, yes, it's in part that, but it's also really, if you're, if you're doing an action, let it be in service of others, right?

If you are dressing, if you are or, you know, that's your first day of being, of affirming yourself, you know, then that's, that's, that's a very personal thing. No one can tell you how to do that.

But if you're like, hey everyone, this is how you affirm yourselves, and it's a directive giving out to community, then you probably need to talk to others to make sure that you know they're on board with what you're saying, if you're saying that it's for community.

And for me, you know, like I said, I don't even I'm like, this implicitly benefits community, but really, it’s an open valve, you know, that people pour things into and it pours back out to the community, right?

It's just a valve. So, it's not necessarily, for me, a a stagnant event that will be antiquated and live on as Pride of 2004 I don't know, like it's there, it's going to look different in 2020, 2030, Pride is going to look different. I don't know if I'll be producing in 2030.

I mean, I hope so. I like it, but like I don't, I can't tell people what Pride is going to look like in 2030. I can hope that it's this other thing or that other thing, but maybe Pride in 2030 has like, there's like, 10 Prides on the same day all around the city, in different neighborhoods.

And if that happens, we won. You know, like, like, listen when the day that they say that there's like, child, there's a there's a Pride in West Philly. There's a Pride on Bottom Avenue.

There's a Pride and like this, the second that that starts happening, like, I'm gonna be like, well, then can I stop so I can go to Pride? Like, can I stop to enjoy Pride in Philly?

You know, I have been to one since before the pandemic, right, that I wasn't actually working. So, and I miss it. I want to, I want to experience what I created too, right?

And, but no, I also that day that, like, what we're we're going like, there's so many events this weekend, I can't even breathe. I can't even hit them all.

There's so many events this month that I can't breathe. I can't even hit them all. Throughout the summer, I can't do enough. There's too much to do the day that that happens.

And people I'm like, I like, we win, we win. And I, I that's what I hope. That's what I hope happens. I hope that, you know, Pride expands to be Philly Pride 365. 365 days of the year, right?

I hope that it expands that way so people kind of, like, have events, and they call it Pride. It's not patented, right?

Like, you know, if someone's like, this is Pride 2024 and it's like September, then guess what it is? Pride 2024 you know? You know that's, that's what this is about.

It's not about ownership. It's about, you know, sharing. It's about creation. It's about art. It's about affirmation. It's about so many things, and none of those things to me say, domination, ownership, or or punishment.

Philly Pride 365 is born out of was like, I was like, we should have Pride every day of year. But this year's theme for Pride is Be You, and that really kind of, it kind of was like, I was like, be you, right?

But then it, it's now, like, it's now again, another word that's another phrase that's so broad. So, I'm like, oh, be you. What does it mean to me to be you?

And it's like, it means so many things like, and I, I think people, I hope, you know, this month, people really, what does it mean to be you?

Like it's like, you know, and when you say those words, if you're like, be you, be a space of love. Are you that every day? Are you pursuing that every day? Be you, be free.

Are you pursuing your liberation every day? What does that look like? Because it's be, which means it's a state of being, right? Not, it's something that you have to pursue every day.

And you know, like, you know, my partner likes to tell me all the time that you don't ever capture or have integrity. It's just something that you pursue every day, right?

Because every different instance brings a new challenge in which you have to operate from a basis of integrity.

You don't just have it perpetually for the rest of your life because you did one thing cool or one thing, right?

It's something that you have to recreate each time a new challenge steps your way, or a new opportunity steps your way. And that's to me, when I say, be you.

It's like, no, I have to recreate that every day, you know? I wake up in the morning and I have to check in with myself and throughout the day, checking in with myself.

Who am I? You know, reminding myself who I am in this world, you know, and sometimes that who I am seems distant from what I imagined myself to be at the age of 42 but, you know, this is, this is who I am in in 2024 and I would wager a guess, just like Pride, I'll be evolving as well.

Episode Closing (1:38:40)

Rob Loveless 

And connecting it back to the tarot. Strength in reverse, typically, this card is, you know, a call to action, signaling that we're courageous, we're strong, we're excited about progressing and moving forward.

But when we draw this card in reverse, it is indicating that there's some apprehension there, that we may be doubting ourselves.

So, we should take some time to reflect and re-energize ourselves and know that we do have the strength to achieve and persevere.

And despite some of the discourse, and especially the anti-LGBTQ+ legislation going on, we should still feel the courage to be ourselves authentically and show up authentically, not just at Pride events one day out of the year or one month out of the year, but all year round. All 365 days.

And remember, Strength is the number eight in the Major Arcana, and eight is very similar to the infinity symbol, which we do see on this card.

So, it's a reminder that our energy, our magic, our strength, our power, is constantly flowing, and we need to trust ourselves because we are stronger than we think we are.

Connect with Tyrell and GALAEI (1:39:38)

Rob Loveless 

And Tyrell, thank you so much for joining today. This was a great conversation. I really appreciate you sharing all the great work you're doing.

For all the listeners out there, can you tell them where they can connect with you, where they can learn more? Especially if they want to get involved with GALAEI.

Tyrell Brown 

Yes. So, our website is www.GALAEIQTBIPOC.org. There you can engage with any number of programs that we have on the website.

Our GALAEI socials are GALAEIQTBIPOC on Facebook and as well as Instagram. @GALAEIPhilly on on Twitter or X. And also, Philly Pride 365, it's PhillyPride365.org.

There you can register for tables, you can register to vend, you can buy tickets to come on to our Be You Talent Show, which is actually this weekend.

And you can find any number of ways to get involved, even if this, if it's not for Pride, there's also National Coming Out Day that we run festivities for which we have the Be You, I'm sorry, not Be You, but we have the Philly Pride 365 Pride parade for National Coming Out Day in October.

And that also includes a block party as well. So, there's things to register on there for that. And also, if there's a cost barrier, I tell people this all the time, reach out to me directly.

My email's listed there. I have not a thousand and one slots, but I usually have spaces that I can, like, go and lay things over just so that way we can have especially small businesses that are just trying to get off the ground or trying to recover.

We want to make sure that they have the opportunity to do that, especially when they're queer, trans-run. So yeah, and our socials for Philly Pride 365 are Philly Pride 365 at Facebook or Instagram as well.

Rob Loveless 

And I'll be sure to include all that in the show notes.

Connect with A Jaded Gay (1:41:45)

Rob Loveless 

And as always, please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Greatly appreciate that. If you have any questions for myself or for Tyrell, you can send them to rob@ajadedgay.com.

You can also connect with the podcast on Instagram, TikTok, SoundCloud, and YouTube @ajadedgaypod. You can follow me personally, Rob Loveless, on Instagram @rob_loveless.

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And remember, every day is all we have, so you got to make your own happiness.

Mmm-bye.